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Post  Kaibeth on Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:30 am

*opens an eye, snorts some smoke, and returns to slumber*

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That's not flying! That's falling with style!

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I put the "boing" in Boeing.
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Post  MichaelaSJ on Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:35 am

Angelic wrote:I never saw Logan's Run, but I saw Soylent Green, it was kind of boring, so I would have to say Logan's Run.
Think you just told the world how you think - or don't!

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451
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Post  MichaelaSJ on Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:57 pm

Angelic wrote:You think you're smarter than me? What's your fucking IQ then? Or are you afraid to say it? Mine's 1 fucking 60.
It doesn't matter who is smarter here than over there. You keep sticking your intellectual chin out for everyone to take a crack at - most of the time you end up taking it square on.

BTW, the VA did a mental assessment of me earlier this year. Because of some previous TBIs, brain infarcts and the use of opiods to control chronic arthritic pain, my quickness if off a bit. But, my IQ has stayed at a level 128 for most of life.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451
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Post  Celia Eriksson on Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:52 pm

Hi Everyone,

There are no terrible personal insults here that I have noted. There is some lively debate, a doubt of intelligence that sailed close to the wind, but not terrible. There is a little swearing, which is fine, we are adults. Let's not go off the rails, we can argue and have conflicting views, it's good... I am saying this coz I received a complaint, this time I've not found a problem.

So, to the 'don't go to London' question, Angel? Well, that's fine, I don't go there as I said, it has no-go areas that are sensitive for reasons. New York has indeed cleaned up it's act, but I would be inclined to look at the facts concerning the USA and guns a little closer. As a bearded, clever man once said as he walked around Palestine 2,000 years ago, ""Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?".

Look at the figures, the USA ranks amongst the most impoverished nations in the world for homicide rates. It is 550% higher per capita than the UK, (including London!), in the lists of intentional homicide. The UK and Norway are way, way down the list. See here:

https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5/rankings

The surprise for me, BTW, was Greenland. I tried looking into that and came up with not much. I am friends with a Danish couple and I will ask them, I tried looking online but found little to see why the murder rate there is so very high…. Celia xx

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Post  Kaibeth on Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:59 pm

Y'all are lucky Celia got to it first. I'll defer to her.... this time.

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Post  Celia Eriksson on Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:08 am

Well, I support Beth 100%, so try and get along everyone, debate, argue... that's great! Fight for your point of view, shake those liccle fists high and fight your corner with honest argument.... but personal attacks....no, no, no, no, no!!!! Celia xx

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Post  Lenneth on Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:33 am

Celia Eriksson wrote:We will not be erased! - Page 2 Banthem

those numbers are not entirely accurate, the US number for EX does not differentiate from Police use, Suicide, Lawful Self Defense, or accidents it is a total number of firearm related deaths.

also the comparisons should be per capita, and not direct numbers.
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Post  tiffany_elizabeth on Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:13 pm

Celia Eriksson wrote:We will not be erased! - Page 2 Banthem


  • Population of Finland: 5.503 million (2017)
  • Population of Australia: 24.6 million (2017)
  • Population of England and Wales: 57.889 million (2015, most recent figure I could find for both countries)
  • Population of Spain: 46.57 million (2017)
  • Population of Germany: 82.79 million (2017)
  • Population of Canada: 36.71 million (2017)
  • Combined total population: 254.062 million
  • Population of the United States: 325.7 million (2017)


You can use raw numbers to make the case, but it's dishonest if you don't include the populations. Things are going to happen more often in higher population areas, and the combined populations of the first six countries in the list is lower than the population of the United States. There are probably more births per day in the US than there are in England and Wales. Spain and Canada seem to be an anomaly with higher murder rates than more heavily populated countries, but when dealing with such a wide range of populations percentages paint a clearer picture.

You also have to factor in how many of those murders are committed by citizens. Not everyone in the US is here legally, and illegal aliens can and do commit crimes. Not all of them, but a not insignificant portion. Many of them come from countries with gun laws that the anti-NRA crowd would drool over, yet they still often have those guns when they cross the border.


Last edited by tiffany_elizabeth on Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:39 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : A bit of confusion over the artithmeticin' so I removed my figures until I could check them.)

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Post  Tara on Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:27 pm

In fact, US residents are much more likely to die by gun suicide or accident than murder. Individual murders and mass shootings are very high profile; they're horrible, yes, but only a small part of the whole story.

BTW, I think your decimal place is wrong on Germany. I get 0.000234%. That one and the US are the only ones I checked.

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"Believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see." — Edgar A. Poe
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Post  tiffany_elizabeth on Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:33 pm

Tara wrote:BTW, I think your decimal place is wrong on Germany. I get 0.000234%. That one and the US are the only ones I checked.

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if they were all wrong. I'll admit I'm not mathematically inclined. The way I got the figures was by dividing the number of murders by the population and multiplying by 100. Standard percentage calculation. The result would often be x.xxxxxxxxxxxe-4. I resolved it by typing in my calculator x.xxe-4, but since I've never run into results like that in my calculations I just had to take an educated guess at it.

I'm going to do some more checking and update my posts if my figures were wrong.

EDIT: I GIVE UP! It's always been my understanding that when it displayed x.xxe-x in calculator it was because the result was too large to display. I never had that problem in console programs, so I made a small one in C#. It was just very basic.

Code:
static void main(string args[])
{
    double Finland = Percentage(17, 5503000);
    ...
    Console.WriteLine("Finland: {0}%", Finland);
    ...
}

double Percentage(double a, double b)
{
    return (a/b) * 100;
}

Overkill, perhaps, but I did it for a very simple reason. When working with console programs I never once encountered x.xxxxxxxxxxxe-4 or whatever. I always got a clearly readable output. But this time around I kept getting results like that with absolutely every calculation, so until I know how to resolve that whole e-x thing I'm just going to go back and remove my figures.


Last edited by tiffany_elizabeth on Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:31 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post  MichaelaSJ on Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:14 am

For Germany I get 2.343e-6 which if I move the decimal correctly is 0.00000234 or .000234%.
In any case, it is a virtually insignificant number (except for the 194 dead).

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451
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Post  tiffany_elizabeth on Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:41 am

MichaelaSJ wrote:For Germany I get 2.343e-6 which if I move the decimal correctly is 0.00000234 or .000234%.
In any case, it is a virtually insignificant number (except for the 194 dead).

I just went ahead and removed my figures, minus the population counts. Apparently it's not as easy to get something readable and still accurate by typing 2.343e-6 into Calculator and hitting enter, so until I can wrap my head around the proper way to convert the result I'm just going to leave it out.

I had to edit the post to add a point I forgot to make the first time around, anyway.

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Post  Celia Eriksson on Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:03 am

Lenneth wrote:
Celia Eriksson wrote:We will not be erased! - Page 2 Banthem

those numbers are not entirely accurate, the US number for EX does not differentiate from Police use, Suicide, Lawful Self Defense, or accidents it is a total number of firearm related deaths.

also the comparisons should be per capita, and not direct numbers.
tiffany_elizabeth wrote:
Celia Eriksson wrote:We will not be erased! - Page 2 Banthem


  • Population of Finland: 5.503 million (2017)
  • Population of Australia: 24.6 million (2017)
  • Population of England and Wales: 57.889 million (2015, most recent figure I could find for both countries)
  • Population of Spain: 46.57 million (2017)
  • Population of Germany: 82.79 million (2017)
  • Population of Canada: 36.71 million (2017)
  • Combined total population: 254.062 million
  • Population of the United States: 325.7 million (2017)


You can use raw numbers to make the case, but it's dishonest if you don't include the populations. Things are going to happen more often in higher population areas, and the combined populations of the first six countries in the list is lower than the population of the United States. There are probably more births per day in the US than there are in England and Wales. Spain and Canada seem to be an anomaly with higher murder rates than more heavily populated countries, but when dealing with such a wide range of populations percentages paint a clearer picture.

You also have to factor in how many of those murders are committed by citizens. Not everyone in the US is here legally, and illegal aliens can and do commit crimes. Not all of them, but a not insignificant portion. Many of them come from countries with gun laws that the anti-NRA crowd would drool over, yet they still often have those guns when they cross the border.

Hello Lenneth, hello again Tiffany.

Posted here earlier, upon this thread is the United Nations figures per capita, that is per 100,000 people, regardless of population size, small or large. So everyone can put the calculators or abacus down.

https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5/rankings

It shows:
USA 4.9 per 100,000 (83rd worst of 192 in the world, but way high for a wealthy country).
Canada 1.7 per 100,000
Finland 1.6 per 100,000
Australia 1.0 per 100,000
U.K. 0.9 per 100,000
Germany 0.9 per 100,000

(Norway 0.6 BTW)

Now, I am not US bashing, I love the USA and find most Americans quite charming and polite. But the fact is there is a problem.

If many, (not all), US people do not realise there is a problem, it is unlikely to be solved. If most don't know what the problem is, it will never be solved. If enough actively deny there is a problem, the problem will grow and grow.....and grow. The problem is not illegal aliens, nor not having enough wall, or fake news. It is the ease of purchasing firearms. Celia xx

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Post  Celia Eriksson on Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:23 pm

Well Angel, you may be right you know. I like to think not, I would hope that it would reduce the rate. To tell the truth how could anyone know unless it was actually tried? What I don't agree with is the false notion that the USA, being a wealthy and rich nation is even close to being as safe as comparable nations.

There must be a reason and my dear Angel, I don't think Americans being inherently murderous is it. I know we all disagree about guns with a passion, so a forewarning everyone, no personal attacks. Thanks. Celia xx

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Post  Celia Eriksson on Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:25 pm

Yes that is right doll. It is a coincidence, I actually looked it up whilst looking at murder rates. You can find nation lists by GDP easily. Wealth by income is harder to find, but!, I found something it! An article....

Before you read it! Firstly Angel is right, the top percentages have it all. Secondly you will find the USA 6th with GDP before you get to read about income, the USA comes 8th with income. Bear in mind other factors like cost of living, it is only income, it does not take prices of houses, cars rtc. in hat nation into account.

https://www.wisegeek.com/which-country-has-the-highest-income-per-capita-in-the-world.htm

Sorry to go off subject, but Jersey astounds me as being 3rd in the world.... amazing. My ancestral Norway is rich, but in reality, the UK is far richer and far from broke, whatever the newspapers might say. Celia xx

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Post  MichaelaSJ on Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:09 am

Celia Eriksson wrote:...but Jersey astounds me as being 3rd in the world.... amazing.
My last employer hired an economist from Jersey. He was a U.S. citizen as his expat father worked for one of the Jersey based banks, but he spent his youth in Jersey and acquired a very nice accent. (He was also very, very sharp and I enjoyed working with him - I learned a lot!)

It was also fun when he tried to explain his accent and U.S. citizenship. Very Happy
__________________________________________
The U.S. has probably the bulk of the world's problems with gun violence and crime, distribution of wealth issues, unrealistic housing prices, the best yet unaffordable for some health costs, more food than the next bunch of countries combined, fantastic weather even with climate issues - and I am hard; very, very hard pressed to think of somewhere else I would want to live.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451
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Post  jentay1367 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:43 am

So happy I am of an age. So much fear and hate and ignorance. It screams of a bygone era when the world slipped into nationalistic fervor. Within 6 years that pox left a world of broken hearted people to weary to hate any further. I don't want to be here for the depravation, the pestilence, the starvation or the mass murder that will surely follow. I am at this juncture, hoping to be out before the lock.
I have found out recently to my chagrin that this has become a world of helpless and ignorant self involved haters and that our manifest destiny is upon us. If Jared Diamonds world doesn't finish us, Rachel Carson's surely will.

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Everything you want is on the other side of fear

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Post  MichaelaSJ on Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:09 am

Jess, you and I and most of the other members here will not have to witness the ultimate destruction of western and eastern cultures. As I have said elsewhere, my Wife says three generations while I say five until the collapse of civilized humanity.

When I was born in 1946 the world's population had not yet reached 2.5 Billion. Today it is almost 7.2 Billion. We are in a runaway explosion with the population expected to reach 9.6 Billion in 2050. It won't reach that number because there will be an intervening worldwide event to significantly reduce the population. War, pestilence, famine, a cosmological event or something else will put this world back to the dark ages but this time with iPhones (version 25?).

The simpler the culture the easier it will be for those folk to manage to eke out a living with their basic and enduring resources. I think the aboriginal populations around the world will do just fine without Facebook, Whole Foods and Tesla.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451
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