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Retired from politics Empty Retired from politics

Post  Michi on Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:08 am

I don't plan on making any political comments. I still feel badly about Vegas Jen, Shan and others leaving the Boards over politics. I have conservative friends and family, who I don't view the same anymore, and it's easier to attack an "enemy" online.

Michi

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Post  MichaelaSJ on Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:26 am

We are not a forum where we discuss the color of our panties or what shade of finger nail polish we will wear this weekend - there are several forums where one can do that. I think we are well beyond the trivia of trans and adult enough to discuss issues that affect us as trans folk, sometimes when our very existence is attacked.

I don't recall Vegas Jen on the predecessor to this forum, but I do recall her on crossdressers.com The biggest problem I had with Vegas Jen was her intolerance of any active duty military person wanting reassignment surgery.

I can handle someone with conservative views, 2nd Amendment views, but to shut out someone from appropriate surgery while in the military was a step too far. She also was adamant that any female, regardless of capability, was unfit for combat duty.

I am a Vietnam Combat Vet who spent her time onboard an aircraft carrier. I do not understand soldiering or being a Marine, as Vegas Jen was. But I do know that there was not one job on my ship that could not have been done by a qualified female. In fact, females now serve on all manner of U.S. Navy ships, including submarines.

Much of the conversations I had with Vegas Jen revolved around the inclusion of women into the Ranger divisions of the Army. I don't recall if their was a similar discussion regarding the Marines. At the time, a couple of females had enrolled in the training but had not passed the very tough course. I believe that has since changed, but in any case, it is a very taxing physical environment and the drop out rate for males is high - females dropping out at a higher rate. Vegas Jen was adamant that she would not serve with a female in a combat role, mainly because they would have the courage to standup to withering combat.

I also recall Shan from crossdressers.com but not on the predecessor site. She also was strident in her conservative views and would not tolerate views not of her liking. My recollection of her leaving the forum was she could not argue her conservative position intellectually and got frustrated and left.

I am a strong proponent of my views, but I am not locked into them. If someone has a better argument, then I will listen and if, to me it makes sense then I am prepared to move from my views. I have difficulty with people who are so strident in the views that they refuse to consider other views.

We live in a political world and we should not shy from responding to a view that is contrary to your health and safety or is contrary to good order in general. If we don't push back on views that put our health or safety in peril, then I cannot imagine not discussing, sometimes shouting our disgust at a view that threatens our safety.

We should never throw brickbats at our members however disgusting their position may be, but we need not be restrained from speaking our minds.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451
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Post  Michi on Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:35 am

They were both on the boards forum. Vegas Jen had chronicled her surgery forum and she got mad and left and had come back and then got mad again and left for good. Shan was on too.

I remember you saying you were on a combat ship and you would have stayed if they wasn't trans discrimination back then. What rank were you and what ship? I almost joined the service (wishy washy between sea duty for the Marines or Army, being a boat hater and seasick prone I wonder how that would have turned out). I was down for my physical and swearing in and was questioned about gayness, cross-dressing, ecetera, by this woman, probably a shrink, and I got cold feet and didn't enlist. I remember the recruiter was pretty mad but he still gave me a ride home. 1983, I just turned 18, was a senior in high school and always like the military and military history. I was pretty much known to be a crossdresser by then as I walked the neighborhoods for my paper route at times dressed years prior. I probably would have done well, I've always been a hard worker and follow the rules.

I worked with a guy who was on an evacuation ship at the end. On one April 30th he was at his desk and I asked him if he was thinking about Vietnam. He had spoken about it previously and wore his ship hat at times. He said not until you said that. At the end of the day he got right in my face, he's a 6'3" 400 pounder and I'm 5"7", and told me everything he saw and did on the ship (lots of death, he had to cut the ships climbing ropes at end for one) and shouted, "I'll be thinking about that this weekend and I hope you will too." After that we had a pretty uneasy working relationship.



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Post  MichaelaSJ on Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:31 am

I really wasn't terribly troubled by my transness before I enlisted. I joined a two year Navy reserve program while I was in high school 3 days after my 17th birthday in October 1963, way before Vietnam was a front page item.

I started to explore my transness while onboard my ship, the U.S.S. Constellation (CVA-64) [an aircraft carrier] and saw combat duty in the second half of 1966 shooting airplanes at North Vietnam. I was on active duty for only 21 months as I was discharged for cost reasons before my ship left for another WestPAC tour in 1967.

I was an E-3 Storekeeper and I was on the promotion list for Storekeeper PO-3. If I had agreed to reenlist I would have been awarded the PO-3 rank immediately.

Funny item, since I was already in the Navy when my 18th birthday came around, I didn't sign up for the draft. Two years after my discharge in 1969, I got a knock on the door and two FBI guys wanted to arrest me for draft dodging. I had to hurry and find my DD214 so they wouldn't haul me off. I still haven't signed up.


Last edited by MichaelaSJ on Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:57 am; edited 1 time in total

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451
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Post  MichaelaSJ on Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:43 am

Additional comment on Vegas Jen and Shan leaving:

If you haven't already discovered, I argue my positions with a lot of gusto. I also only argue from a counter-point perspective. I do post articles that tend to be favorable to my views but I only argue those positions if someone does their own counter-point.

If they tire of the argument, fine. I don't continue to chase them for simply backing away. If they want to offer their own views, they should be prepared to stand by them. I found that Vegas Jen and Shan tired easily and ultimately left.

I shared common experiences with both Vegas Jen and Shan and political arguments aside, we were friendly.

I have PM Jen after she left and she was happy with her transition.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451
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Post  Jehanne on Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:30 pm

I do not know how we could avoid political discussions, considering that there is a trans bigot in the White House, or at least someone who sympathizes and/or is willing to do the bidding of those who are.

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Post  Michi on Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:41 pm

It was the liberals who were anti Clinton I couldn't take, you know ltlttle to no difference between Clinton who said trans rights are human rights and Trump who is a lifelong hater, and the same thing going to happen in 2020.

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Post  Jehanne on Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:22 pm

Michi wrote:It was the liberals who were anti Clinton I couldn't take, you know ltlttle to no difference between Clinton who said trans rights are human rights and Trump who is a lifelong hater, and the same thing going to happen in 2020.

If the Democrats retake the Senate in 2020, SCOTUS will change things, eventually.

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Post  Michi on Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:29 pm

Not going to matter me with me, and 53 and with Trump's likely three or even four pics I'm screwed.

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Post  Jehanne on Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:43 pm

I don't think that Trump is going to be reelected.  The Democrats, per the recent polling, want to win in 2020, and so, it looks like a moderate candidate (Beto?) is going to be nominated.  The US (and with it, the World) economy is going to tank here in the next 12 months.  The World will blame Trump, who will blame Obama.

"It's the economy....stupid."

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Post  Michi on Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:44 pm

A moderate will get the primary but I doubt they'll win the progressive vote in the end. Another reason why I'm out of politics. Pelosi will be the right's campaign theme.

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Post  Jehanne on Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:36 pm

Michi wrote:A moderate will get the primary but I doubt they'll win the progressive vote in the end.  Another reason why I'm out of politics. Pelosi will be the right's campaign theme.

Trump won because of those **censored** Greens; same reason Gore lost in 2000. Don't give up, girl! As long as the train is moving in the right direction, that's what is important!

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