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Post  Celia Eriksson on Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:19 pm

So, I really don't want to upset my dear American Cousins, coz I love 'em! But a lot of stuff already debunked by the twee, charismatic, eccentric Historian Lucy Worsley continued tonight. You see, she's already presented shows debunking lots of British legendary history. But tonight the first of her series American History's Biggest Fibs aired and many American legendary history appears to be just that, legendary..... and it's only episode one.Embarassed

Well, in case there is a Transatlantic translation problem; fibs :slang: [UK} = lies.

The article below explains all, but being an Americophile, I have to admit I knew nothing of any of these truths mooted by Miss Worsley and am quite surprised to boot! It was a very good show and I recommend it to all. If ya can find a way of watching it, tell me what ya think!

Spoiler alert though if ya wanna watch it don't go to the link!

https://www.theartsdesk.com/tv/american-historys-biggest-fibs-lucy-worsley-bbc-four-review-rewriting-history-land-free

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Post  Tara on Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:25 am

Celia Eriksson wrote:
Well, in case there is a Transatlantic translation problem; fibs :slang: [UK} = lies.

It means the same thing in American English. And I have found that many people are not at all happy to see their favourite myths debunked.

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Post  MichaelaSJ on Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:27 am

I don't give a damn what she thinks or says - we did go the Moon and FDR was shot by one gunner.

And here's back at you - King Arthur probably didn't exist, and I don't believe Shakespeare wrote his plays?

Yes, Washington and Jefferson both own slaves. In fact Jefferson held one slave(Sally Hemings)  as a mistress. The original White House was built by slaves. But you damn Brits burnt it down in 1812.

The Libery Bell (I have seen it) predates the Revolutionary War, per this:
The State House bell, now known as the Liberty Bell, rang in the tower of the Pennsylvania State House. Today, we call that building Independence Hall. Speaker of the Pennsylvania Assembly Isaac Norris first ordered a bell for the bell tower in 1751 from the Whitechapel Foundry in London. That bell cracked on the first test ring. Local metalworkers John Pass and John Stow melted down that bell and cast a new one right here in Philadelphia. It's this bell that would ring to call lawmakers to their meetings and the townspeople together to hear the reading of the news. Benjamin Franklin wrote to Catherine Ray in 1755, "Adieu, the Bell rings, and I must go among the Grave ones and talk Politicks." It's not until the 1830's that the old State House bell would begin to take on significance as a symbol of liberty.

No one recorded when or why the Liberty Bell first cracked, but the most likely explanation is that a narrow split developed in the early 1840's after nearly 90 years of hard use. In 1846, when the city decided to repair the bell prior to George Washington's birthday holiday (February 23), metal workers widened the thin crack to prevent its farther spread and restore the tone of the bell using a technique called "stop drilling". The wide "crack" in the Liberty Bell is actually the repair job!

I know that Paul Revere didn't ride by himself.

I have been to the Statute of Liberty although it was close for repairs so we did go in to climb the stairs.
_____________________
Well, here is my debunk of a tale - aircraft carriers can only due 35 knots. (I know, I know - who cares?)

One of my jobs on board my ship, the aircraft carrier (Constellation CVA-64) was to bleed off about 30 different air compressors and enter a log located in the main engineering control
room. We had just left the shipyard where the boat had undergone a major overhaul and we were on a sea trial. I can tell you that my ship hit 50 knots in December 1965 - I was in the engineering control room when the ship's navigator came over the com and announced the speed. The senior officers actually open a bottle of champagne to celebrate as we were the first carrier to do it - even before the first nuclear power carrier (Enterprise CVN-65) did it. Common wisdom is these beasts top out at ~35 knots. Imagine being on a machine weighing 77,000 tons humming, literally humming - it was unbelievable. This was a test and nothing more as it was not economical or safe to do this speed too often.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
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Post  mariehart1 on Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:00 pm

I'm a big fan of Lucy. I find her documentaries fascinating. I watched it last night. I actually knew some already particularly about the French help which I think many Americans are not so aware of or anyone else for that matter.

She did a similar job on many British myths. I wish she'd do the same on some of precious myths we Irish tell about ourselves. To be fair all countries have biased views of themselves. Human nature I think.
I look forward to the next episode also I do like the way she dresses.

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Post  Celia Eriksson on Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:07 pm

Oh Miki! It does look like all my Chickens are coming home to roost! Sad

But..... I don't think anyone thinks Arthur existed as per se Mallory. There was actually a British Chieftain called Artur who fought a battle at Mount Baden, (location unknown), and that's about it! As for Shakespeare, well that's not proven either way. Some believe Bacon wrote the plays, but it is in reality likelier to have been Will.

I love Americans, but I also love History and factual History is better and more fascinating than Myth! As Marie has written she exposed many British myth too! There are many others too!!!!

She does dress well Marie, but I like the way she presents stuff, she is very interesting and picks great subjects on her shows. I did know the French helped the American Revolutionaries, they always liked to jump on anything anti-British and still do to a lesser degree. It is a fact though that the British brought it all upon themselves, firstly parliamentary constraints. But it all changed after loyalties to the Crown were scorched with Farmer George's careless attitude to the American complaint of taxation without representation.


Celia xx

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Post  MichaelaSJ on Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:15 pm

There is a well known painting showing then General George Washington crossing the Delaware River to fight the British.
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Actually, while he did cross the river, probably not while standing in the bow of a row boat, he did it to attack the 1,400 mercenary Hessian Soldiers. The Hessians were Germans who regularly fought for the British.

Most Americans do not know about this trivia regarding the Revolutionary War.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
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Post  Celia Eriksson on Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:01 pm

Oh.... it's all coming to me now! So, the English had the hopeless at war Germanans on their side.... even the French beat them in 1870 over Alsace!!!!! No wonder the British lost the AWOI!!!!

The Brits now have a great excuse!

But seriously, you always get most embroiled in European affairs, or drawn in.... that was just a foray the other way, compared to the wonderful effort the USA put in in helping Europe get rid of the Nazis in Germany and contributing in WWI too. God Bless America!

Celia xx

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Post  MichaelaSJ on Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:27 am

If it weren't for Japan bombing us in 1941, we would probably have left Germany to takeover Britain. There was no hurry for us to get involved in anything outside our borders.

I think the most horrific thing we did prior to entering into the war, was in June 1939, the German ocean liner St. Louis and its 937 passengers, almost all Jewish, were turned away from the port of Miami, forcing the ship to return to Europe; more than a quarter died in the Holocaust.

During WWII we locked away the Japanese (citizens or not) because they were easy to identify whereas the Germans and Italians, who were mostly assimilated into U.S. society were allowed to roam free.

Two of my friends (twins) in high school, Glen and Karen Arimoto had parents who were interned in a camp named Manzanar, in the foothills of the Sierra Mountains. Their parents had a thriving nursery business before the war and it was only because of their white friends supporting them that the parents did not lose their business.

We, the Americans have a lot to hide. Unfortunately, this man who is our current President, President Pig Shit is playing on the worst aspects of who we are to remain in power.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
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Post  Celia Eriksson on Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:25 pm

Hi Miki!!!!!

Well, maybe Germany would have taken Britain, who knows, they tried hard enough in '39 and '40. I thought they gave up and turned on the Bear in the East after the RAF took control of the skies....

Anyway, them entering the war and before that supplying the UK with food and stuff certainly made a big difference and is much appreciated, even though the USA did not waive it and the UK had to repay for everything, finally resolving the debt to the USA in 2006. Wheteher the Russians, Americans or Brits won the war is not really worth debating, but I would put my money on the Russians having the biggest claim, were I pushed to answer.

So I think no nation behaves like saints during a war. You can't blame yourselves for locking up Japanese, they are fiercely patriotic and to this day are the most homogenous nation among developed nations. The Jews, yes a big mistake that you have to live with. But think how the Germans and Austrians behaved and Britain and the USA are angels compared, the Russians somewhere inbetween, for they certainly made Germans pay, Germans actually wanted to be captured by Brits, Americans, Anzacs or Canadians, not Russians. Anyway, the right side won, nobody doubts that.

The only animosity over here to the splendid American involvement is Hollywood and it's twisted history.... the film U571 for example, (interestingly a USA/French production), that is blatant rubbish with a little three second caption at the end of the film showing the truth, that the British captured the Enigma machine, not the Americans... but, I forgive you, for I love America!!!! God Bless America!!!! Celia xx

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Post  MichaelaSJ on Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:13 pm

Celia Eriksson wrote:.... the film U571 for example,

Yeah, sorry about that, but at least we got the 'Red October'. (I think we did, I mean Tom Clancy said we did!)
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As for the Japanese, an all Japanese regiment was the most highly decorated group of soldiers during the European part of WWII:
The 442nd Infantry Regiment is an infantry regiment of the United States Army and is the only infantry formation in the Army Reserve. The regiment is best known for its history as a fighting unit composed almost entirely of second-generation American soldiers of Japanese ancestry (Nisei) who fought in World War II. Beginning in 1944, the regiment fought primarily in the European Theatre, in particular Italy, southern France, and Germany. Many of the soldiers had families in internment camps while they fought abroad. The unit's motto was "Go for Broke".
The 442nd Regiment is the most decorated unit in U.S. military history. Created as the 442d Regimental Combat Team when it was activated February 1, 1943, the unit quickly grew to its fighting complement of 4,000 men by April 1943. During action in WWII, these 4,000 had to be replaced nearly two times, with a total of about 14,000 men served. The unit earned more than 18,000 awards in less than two years, including 9,486 Purple Hearts and 4,000 Bronze Star Medals. The unit was awarded eight Presidential Unit Citations (five earned in one month) Twenty-one of its members were awarded Medals of Honor. In 2010, the Congressional Gold Medal was awarded to the 442nd Regimental Combat Team and associated units who served during WWII, and in 2012, all surviving members were made chevaliers of the French Légion d'Honneur for their actions contributing to the liberation of France and their heroic rescue of the Lost Battalion.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
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Post  mariehart1 on Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:05 pm

Actually Hitler had no real interest in invading Britain really,. Only for Churchill's defiance and the British sense of doing the right thing, (what's gone wrong?). Hitler was really focused Eastwards. He didn't rate the US at all. Big mistake. In reality the US had to get involved and was tentatively involved in Europe long before Pearl Harbour. Afterwards even though Japan attacked, first the US prioritised Hitler's defeat.

Neither the Soviets or the British would have defeated the Germans without American support. Unpalatable for both nations but true. American industrial might won the war, with Soviet manpower. But Britain sacrificed a lot of men, proportionally more than the US. Plus Britain lost its status in the world. Something which resonates to this very day in their attempt to recapture their past.

It's all connected.

As for the Hollywood version of the war, well they would. I always argue that the Brits should make their own movies. They get it right, Dunkirk great film. Ok that's a loss. Why don't the Brits make great Dambuster type moves anymore?

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Post  MichaelaSJ on Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:54 am

mariehart1 wrote:... Dunkirk great film. Ok that's a loss. Why don't the Brits make great Dambuster type moves anymore?
Dunkirk was a very successful retreat under extreme pressure. (I hope that Spirfire pilot was not sacrificed when he was captured!)

Yes, the Brits do make good WWII movies and the Dambuster movie was among them. Another Brit/American film of note was 'The Bridge Over The River Kwai'. Jack Hawkins and Alec Guinness were certainly the equal of William Holden.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451
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Post  Celia Eriksson on Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:42 pm

Hi!!!!

I have to agree, we don't make films like we used to, but there are some great Britflicks out there! I guess to some degree the obsession with the war is on the wane now, after all it ended 74 years ago!!!!

Hitler made one big mistake in WWII and that was invading Russia. Don't forget that the British had air superiority and that stopped him invading, he would have done so otherwise without doubt and Churchill was right about so much being owed by so few and that includes not just British people. I still believe the Russians turned the war around. Anyway, it was a very long time ago now, the future is far more important!

Celia xx

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