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Post  Lesley Niyori on Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:15 pm

This post is more to explain the why of some of my thoughts, and not really a defense, or a justification or an attempt to convince.

I'm open to conversation, but it should be noted, you're going to need more than just a counter-assertion, you'll need actual factual reason supported by proven evidence. Because I didn't get to this point on a whim.

Ok, I have a long history of being religious, and a Canadian Anglican specifically.
So I KNOW the materials.
I am today an atheist. And that should be understood to mean, I have been given proper reasons.
I'm not just saying there is no God because I don't feel like believing in him.
The case was made to me, I was given the truth, and it was proven scientifically.

I'm not asserting my opinion. My atheism is not derived from my own opinion.
I'm reporting on the evidence as it was presented to me.

And this is all in connection with why I am so vocal about Christians and the Bible.

Because I've had it adequately demonstrated, that God does not in fact exist.
God is today and has always been, an assertion not supported by any facts.
Until you can prove he is there, no one is obligated to believe he is.

So, we live in a world of people believing in something without any genuine logical reason to do so. And those people, expect to enforce their beliefs on me as if they were based on fact and truth.

And those beliefs are being used to create negative and often harmful and indeed potentially life-threatening conditions to me.

And that is the basis of my vocal objections.
This is why I'm unwilling to just dismiss their beliefs as 'harmless words' that can't hurt me.
Because sometimes the pen is a great deal mightier than the sword.

I do not want God, or his Bible, or his Christians in my world.
Christians are real. They do exist.
The Bible is a tangible article. It's really out there.
God though, does not exist.
Your prayers are not going to be heard.
Anything nice that happens, will not be his doing.
Anything bad that happens, will also not be his doing.
There is no devil (or whatever name you wish employed).
There are no demons, and there are no angels.
Miracles do not occur.
You can't be cursed.

Whatever the real world might be, God isn't part of any of it.

If my science can't fully explain the absolute original origin of life, it merely means we have not found the answer. It doesn't mean God exists. I can prove he doesn't exist. It takes a lot of time, and a lot of reading, and a lot of dialogue. So when demanding I give the proof, be ready for the effort to obtain it. And no, it will not be contained in a single post on an internet forum.

It took me a long time to receive the proof myself.

So now, if you read this post seriously and slowly and completely, you will understand why I'm not planning to cut religion, and Christianity and Christians any slack any time soon.
If they discontinue telling all and everyone I'm an abomination, I might call it a beginning to a peace settlement.
If they refrain from writing biased laws against me, I'll consider backing off.
If they get their beliefs out of my educational institutions, I'll think about being nicer to them.
If they keep their beliefs, to themselves and confined to the worship places, I will not be so publicly vocal and intent on tearing their beliefs apart in public too.

There are really only so many Christians I don't default dislike. And the number is extremely small. The number I dislike, is close enough to 99%, that it's not easy to really denote them any other way.

I've been mentioning mainly Christians. It's not just them though. Just so we are clear on that.

I'm disturbed by how many Christians are so easily conned by some of the ones in power.
It's actually scary what some actually believe.
It's frightening how extremely undereducated some are.
I'm genuinely worried about people who don't care about the future, as they are expecting a new one to be handed to them. This fantasy future isn't going to happen.
And they are probably part of the problem creating the not so pleasant future that is likely going to happen.

So yeah, I'm vocal because they have made it necessary.
My survival might require it.

I don't subscribe to the idea, "just ignore it and hope it goes away."

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Post  Kaibeth on Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:15 am

Have I ever once tried to convert you? lol

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Post  Celia Eriksson on Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:22 am

Hi Lesley and Beth!

I was brought up an Anglican and went to church and Sunday School too. I do believe in a creator, but find the notion that the world is 6,000 years old a myth and am well aware that not all religions can be correct. I don't attend anymore except weddings and funerals and have been to carol singing events. I do understand Lesley's angle, but don't entirely agree.

Easter and Christmas I take and consider myself Christian. But I have to admit I don't believe in the creator as being who or what is portrayed in the Judae/Christian fashion, or much else in the bible. But, I believe it's unlikely we are here for nothing, all that massive expanse and things whizzing around in the universe, with us living on the goldilocks planet..... perfect size moon, sun and earth, anything slightly different and intelligent, sentient life could not exist. I don't know, I just think time and everything else was made so that we exist. One certainty is that eventually the universe will die and man with it if not before, with us all just dust and bits of stuff. So, if it is all to end one day, our existence meaning absolutely nothing.... then …… for why?

Celia xx

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Post  Lesley Niyori on Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:42 am

One of the most articulate voices I have been listening to recently, put it best Celia.

The point of life? There is no point.

No soul, no afterlife.

It sucks of course. Of course, it sucks. That's why religion exists.

Because in the beginning, our distant past, when the world was flat and the stars in the sky were our ancestors, and death was a mystery, we were afraid of what happened next.

Christianity is based on fear. Fear of God, because if we didn't measure up, he'd make the afterlife really unpleasant. That, by the way, is how, to sum up, God. Not loving, but, a cruel vicious bastard who made us flawed, so we would need to apologize for being made flawed, so we could ask for forgiveness for our flaws, which he made on purpose. No fucking asshole move if you ask me.

Here in 2018, and we can see far into the cosmos, but, we still don't know what is real entirely. We might be just one level of computerized existence. No one way to know though eh.

If God made reality, if he was likened to a programmer, he'd be bankrupt by now.

I call a spade a spade though. Jesus, if he ever even existed, likely not even as close to being the person he was, sounds like he was a good person. I think his teachings have merit. Too bad too many, waaaaaay too many Christians that use his name and pretend to follow his teachings, are no better than their supposed God. Judgemental, vicious, and cruel.

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Post  Celia Eriksson on Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:40 pm

Hi Lesley!

I totally understand those points, and agree on many. I agree religion was invented because of the fear of death, then used as a tool to strike fear in the supressed with the fear of God. 'There will be pie in the sky when you die'.

Jesus did exist, many people don't realise that. A man called Christ or a very similar named man walked the earth, I think that is proven. The rest is conjecture, he must have made quite a mark though.

The computer programme theory is one of endless possibilities. Impossible to discuss all, but the cosmos with super string and matrix theories, theories upon time all kinds of other stuff that could be correct. Still, we will never, ever be able to be sure whether creator is fact. For who created the creator? But then we go back to why? Why am I tapping away on a bit of plastic in my little home, writing about it? Why time, what is it? Why are we here at all? If it truly is for nothing, then you are correct, the universe is a very cruel place. Have to go out, Doctor, garage, then shopping, see you later!

Celia xx

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Post  mariehart1 on Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:31 pm

I refuse to call myself an atheist. That implies I've joined some sort of movement. There is no atheist movement. Atheism is merely the description of the rational rejection of the God myth. There is no God but there's no need to go around recruiting people to your point of view. In any case superstition will never be wiped out. When you attack religion it only fuels their self belief.

There's no point to life but we're here and we might as well enjoy it as much as we can. I suppose I'm an existentialist at heart.

While there is no omnipotent God it's easy to see the cosmos as some form of presence that influences us all. After all we are merely star dust. We were there at the start of the big bang and as a form of matter we will remain circulating in this universe until it ends. So we do have an afterlife of sorts. In my case as long as my children survive and reproduce. I will exist within them in some way. So I live on.


The problem with people is that we believe we are important in the scheme of things despite all the evidence to the contrary. Be we are as important as a wasp or a fly. We infest the planet in the much the same way.

Take a look at this old picture. Btw I make no apology for showing a picture of my native city. Very Happy Look at all those people going about their daily business unaware that they are about to be immortalised in one form. But what they all of them have in common is that they are all dead, every last one of them. But that was far from the minds of those people promenading across the bridge that sunny day in Dublin in 1900. They had things to do, busy. They were important. They lived in the second city of the British empire.  Most believed in an afterlife but no doubt most ended up in Glasnevin cemetery, no longer important or busy and the British empire is long gone. A photo taken from the same spot today would show the same view, only buses and cars and people in different clothes going about their business. The people today think just like their ancestors but they'll be gone too by the end of this century, all of them.

Why do I do it? Historic-bw-photos-of-dublin-ireland-in-19th-century-04


Life is fleeting, it's a waste of time planning for a future afterlife when it's hard enough to survive day to day.

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Post  Celia Eriksson on Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:57 pm

Yes life is a gift. Use your time dancing upon this world wisely. Savour every moment. Love and never hate, always smell the flowers, always accept the invitation.

To be loved is one of the most wonderful things I have experienced. I have been loved and taken for granted and I have been loved unreservedly, it is the one thing I yearn for to happen again and being alive just for that want is enough to drive me on to loving life.

I cannot hate, I do dislike things some people do. I am revulsed, am disappointed and feel sorry for those that walk among us that are evil, ignorant, selfish or callous. But I do not hate them.

I cannot believe the Universe is cruel. It's why I believe there is a reason we are here, those Dubliners were there, same as us, all of us locked in time. The simple question, why?, is enough for me to doubt there is nothing created, nothing fated, nothing else. If not, then I ask again, for why? Why are we here at all? What is the point of being here at all?

For yes Marie, your children will carry your line on, but not when the Universe dies, as it will, when everything is either dust spread out across an ever expanding, totally dark cosmos or imploded to a immensely heavy sphere the size of a pinhead, as was the state before the big bang. That would be a very cruel Universe, if there was no reason for it.

Celia xx

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Post  Lesley Niyori on Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:05 pm

Atheist is just a term to denote a type.

I am an atheist, the same as I am a transgender woman.

I wish both terms held no importance.

But sadly, both terms do.

One identifies me as unwilling to support a cause, religious belief, the other identifies me as someone who is not cisgender.

I wish being an atheist wasn't more or less a death sentence to one's chances of higher political office, the same way being transgender probably is.

But we live in a world where being a nice little cisgender religious devotee is pretty much required to have any realistic chances at politics. And every politician pretty much knows it.

I am a Canadian. But that term is more or less harmless.
I am a parent. And that qualifier has some uses.
I am Caucasian, and that term comes with both costs and benefits.
I am right handed, and that term isn't much of a detail.
I am a great lover of science, and that term comes with a variety of resulting effects.
I'm an artisan, and I'm proud of that term's implications.
I'm not a sports fan, and that term means nothing to me.
I'm not a driver, and that term is not one I have much interest in.
I am a bit overweight, not much, but, I'm not a preferable term 'fit'.
I am disabled, and I'd rather not be wearing that term.
I'm looking forward to the term 'married', and I sure never thought I'd be called a fiance.
I rather like wearing the term 'girlfriend'.
I have been referred to as 'attractive' plenty of times by friends who I think are generally speaking just being 'nice'. But, when I hear my girlfriend fiance say it, I'm willing to believe it.
I belong to a number of fandom terms. I like anime, and I like romance novels specifically modern contemporary.
One of my favourite terms is 'mother'. I've also worn the term 'father', but, I like that my son is ok with 'mother'. It fits nicer.

A great many terms are just bland labels. No more important in our lives than we make them.
I really like the Tamiya model brand name. I'm sure the Tamiya brand name likes my obsession with it. But I'm just one of many. I lack importance as an individual. It's only when I am counted with the whole that anything happens.

And that is precisely why some terms matter sometimes.
One atheist is nothing much.
If there were only one, it would dwindle rather significantly.
One Christian isn't much to care about either.
But a few hundred million can become something rather significant.

Especially when you consider what they believe, what they want, what they expect and what they support.
When their beliefs are that my existence is a threat to them, then my being me, is potentially dangerous to me. And it can be dangerous to anyone like me.
If it was just me, they wouldn't likely even know I existed.
But I am more than just me, and I belong to a group that is quite a lot too.
They see me as a threat to them. They see all of my people as a threat to them.
They see my acceptance of my science as an attack on their beliefs.
And my science is not a 'cause', it is just science.
You don't need to be an atheist, but, you can't really deny my science.
Well, I suppose you can. But occasionally denying science only gets you looking stupid in the process.
And that's the sad truth of science. It makes those unwilling to accept it, stupid.
Because our science has had to endure a lot of very capable scientists telling a scientist, that his science wasn't valid until it was proven valid with proven facts.

Fact, a thing is only a fact when you manage to prove it scientifically against all arguments against it. With proof that is back up with evidence, that can endure testing.

That is the core of my being an atheist.
It's not just a whim.
I have the evidence, the facts that back up the claim.
I can show you, for real, that the Bible is a colossal waste of paper.
I can show you all of what a Christian believes in, is total shit.
All of it. Not just the part about God.

There was a cost to me when I put on the label atheist.
I was baptized as 'me' in February of 2015.
My baptism was a pointless waste.
At the time I was baptized, I didn't know that.
I've lost the warm fuzzy feeling you get when you believe there is something after death.
Now, all I have is the knowledge, that there is no hell to worry about.
I lost the ability to think my teddy bear can magically protect me from scary things in the dark.
Because his blessing at the church by a Canadian Anglican priest was essentially pointless.
It did nothing.
There are no angels, so none 'trained' him in the fine art of defense against nasty unseen things.
Then again, there are no nasty unseen scary things in the dark to protect me from.
So it doesn't matter that he is just a teddy bear.
But, it doesn't mean I can leave him at home when I go out.
I still can't feel comfortable without him.
Maybe that makes me look slightly juvenile.
I don't really care.
I am happy while he is with me. So you will never catch me anywhere without him.
Sadly, no 'souls' means a teddy bear can't possess one even fictionally.
Which means my current book I am writing, slowly, ploddingly, is about a farce I can't even vaguely justify. A teddy bear that is just a teddy bear, and which can't be anything but a teddy bear, will be completely incapable of miraculously impregnating his human transgender wife even in a goofy fictional romance novel.
Well, I can write anything I want, but, I'd rather at least be able to think it just might magically be possible.

When I became an atheist, the part that hurt the most, had nothing to do with the afterlife and heaven's loss. I lost the goofy belief that I could marry a strangely alive teddy bear and have his babies in a silly story. I was able to make this kooky story work in my head because I was able to believe in the impossible. I was all about "well, if it can allow Jesus to be born impossibly, why can't my teddy bear husband get me impossibly magically pregnant even though I'm a human transgender woman that just can't have babies for the simple fact, I lack those female reproductive organs?" It doesn't matter if Jesus ever lived or didn't, he wasn't the son of a god made flesh. He died, and he stayed dead. He's not coming back. He was just a really nice guy, if he was even ever real, who lived 2000 and some years ago.

As crazy as it sounds, being an atheist has only really made it so a few of my romance novels will need to be rewritten slightly.

There are a lot of religious people out there, who to me, are just sad, gullible, people too scared to accept the facts of science. The best of them and the worst of them. They're all equally going to be wrong on their death bed.

I have no desire to 'hurt' Christians beyond my refusal to permit them to fuck up MY life with their beliefs.

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Post  mariehart1 on Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:41 pm

Lesley, just skimming your post. Busy now cooking dinner etc. But one thing caught my eye. I too like, indeed love the Tamiya model brand. I can't say why. Airfix was the childhood brand I was most familiar with but Tamiya caught my imagination. Those white stars on the red and blue rectangle I don't know why but I share your liking.

Btw, for those of you puzzled by this, Tamiya is Japanese model manufacturer noted for the quality of it's products. It's iconic in the world of miniatures.

I'll reply tomorrow to the rest tomorrow.

Celia, your use of the term Dubliners caught my eye too. That is probably how I most identify myself. I'm a Dubliner. In Ireland that can target you for abuse believe it or not.

Have to go, dinner is ready.

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Post  Lesley Niyori on Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:20 pm

Yep. To carry on about Tamiya, they tend to have quality standards second to none. Instructions that are second to none, molds that are second to none. Granted, they had a beginning where their kits were not the polished items of today.

They do almost anything. Cars bikes trucks planes tanks ships miniatures. More than one scale of several of those categories.

My youth though was with Matchbox, a UK company. They made fast easy basic models of most genres.

There are other greats in the industry, but, they rarely have the perfect blend of qualities.
Dragon has more details more parts cheaper prices and instructions that are generally made with errors. But often they have too many parts. Often their items are out of supply before you knew they existed.

Often a company is only great in one genre. But Tamiya does it all. Sadly, Tamiya is not bargain priced. But you at least get what you pay for.

When I have the choice of a Tamiya or a rival of seemingly equal quality, I pick the Tamiya even at 10-20% increase in price.

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