GRS and Hormone therapy during transition

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GRS and Hormone therapy during transition Empty GRS and Hormone therapy during transition

Post  Lesley Niyori on Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:01 pm

This is not a medical dissertation, thus, I am not quoting clinical facts, I'm commenting on my experiences, both personal, and observational.

I'm a post-op transgender woman. I've seen a lot in just a few years.

GRS is not for everyone.
Not everyone gets cancer either.
I saw having a penis, as the equal of having cancer.
It had to go, or I was going to die, not figuratively either.
Not everyone will react like this.
But I did.

Hormone therapy is not as drastic as GRS. But hormone therapy isn't a day in surgery and then recovery and then over. I expect to be taking hormones for estrogen purposes for the rest of my life. I didn't have to take the anti-androgens following surgery. I'm glad, as anti-androgen hormones are damaging in the long run.

If you have enough reason to take an anti-androgen, you likely have enough reason to have what we call an orchy. Yes, we all know the real name for the procedure. It permits you to escape the need for anti-androgen hormones. It's a good idea in the long run regardless of what else you might think you need or don't need. Because long run, anti-androgens are beating up on your vital organs.

My fiance may well get the orchy short term. Might get the GRS eventually. But, she's undecided. She doesn't 'hate' her girl penis. I'd rather she not need the anti-androgens. I don't mind what choice she goes with for GRS.

But, my post is mainly about hormone therapy as a whole.
If you feel a need to take hormone therapy, clearly there is something about your current conditions you are unhappy about.
The thing with hormone therapy is it isn't a finite duration.
You don't take them for months or years. You take them for a lifetime generally speaking.

Transition isn't a destination, it's a journey.
It ends when you are dead for the most part.

In my 'journey', I have experienced the chaos and hell prior to HRT and GRS.
There were some nasty bumps, some fairly steep inclines, not much in the way of flat easy parts.
There hasn't yet been any downhill fun easy coasting yet. Maybe that happens a lot later.
There's been some major challenges and a few scares.
All from external sources, never any internal regrets.

I have not had any problems with my decisions personally.
I am indeed happy being real.

But the sailing isn't always smooth.

Early on, I experienced 'it' just stopping functioning. It was great. I liked the peace and quiet.
Not all girls lose the use of their gear.
Then my sexuality went and started to wander.
Was I hetero female?
No, it seems I am demisexual.
I like men, they scare me though, and women, no real interest actually.
And yet my fiance is a transgender woman.
Life is confusing as transgender.

I have experienced a few physiological changes. No body hair (awesome). Sore breasts for 2 years (unsure what was going on in them, they didn't get bigger). Everything else physiological is hard to see.
Not emotional and mental, HAH!, now that is a long story.
Yeah, I'm more empathic, moodier.
I can't handle violence in media anymore.
I used to be a hardcore wargamer. Now, my aggressive nature is gone.

I have had to fight tooth and nail to get back into my wargaming hobby.
I don't mind not watching gory guy pandering action movies as much.

I've watched a lot of my personality sharpen and focus, and fine tune in the last 4 years.
I like it, although, I'm often confused by it.

There are some who actually don't think they will 'lose' much of their self during hormone therapy. Whatever. Tell yourself anything you like eh Smile But this girl thinks you will change, and probably a lot. And it will take some time, and you probably won't immediately see it.

You don't really have to take hormones and suffer from lots of dysphoria to be 'transgender'.
But here's the real question. How would you know you were transgender if you had nothing forcing you to doubt your identity in the first place?

In the beginning, it was wardrobe. And I felt 'odd' in my new clothes.
The oddness didn't go away overnight. It took a year and some before I became used to being 'me'.
Hormones ruled my initial journey for 2 years before my GRS.
Vaginoplasty surgery is no small deal, but, I actually experienced more change through hormone therapy than I did with GRS.
I think if I had been given GRS just because I demanded it, and no hormone therapy, I'd still not feel like a real woman, even if the parts suggested I was.

The hormones fine-tuned my sense of self.
The GRS has mainly allowed me to get undressed in the ladies change room, casually, and feel not one iota of discomfort from my body. It permits me to state "yes, I'm a real woman" if that need might arise. And with my ID, I can essentially just not mention I'm transgender if I don't feel like it around strangers.
But it's the hormone therapy, that allows me to look and act like a woman and seem credible fully dressed.
GRS isn't going to help you 'pass' unless you're also walking around naked.

I haven't actually needed my GRS for sex as much as I might have thought I would.
My fiance is still pre-op, and she appears to enjoy sex the same way as me.

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Post  CarolynAH on Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:51 am

I feel you. I have experienced most of what you described. Though the specifics differ.


Hormones were a slow inexorable guidance, as the changes became visible it was the first undeniable thing. That moment when I realized I couldn't hide or live in two worlds forever. And felt every doubt and fear. But at the same time they helped curb the anxiety and depression enough to face myself.

GCS has had an odd impact, I am far more comfortable and confident in my gender. But also feel more vulnerable, the fears of years of problems with men hit me. All the collected garbage that having those bits allowed me to be somewhat disconnected from hits me in full. Conversely I feel little connection to men and their bits or their hang-ups and anxieties about them. I have already lit into one co-worker who continued to treat me like one of the guys.

In a few more years I doubt I will be even recognizable as the same person.
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Post  mariehart1 on Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:45 pm

Interestingly as a non transitioning person not on hormones or likely to be. I found quite a lot in common and a few things I wish we had in common. Sorry for the cut and paste.

A vagina for a start.
I saw having a penis, as the equal of having cancer.
It had to go, or I was going to die, not figuratively either.
I wouldn't go that far but I've become increasingly antagonistic towards it. At one point though years ago. I decided to kill myself, as coldly as that and to be honest it's still an undercurrent. I'm not so obsessed with a vagina but I really don't want a penis anymore. How can I call myself a woman and still have one? I want it gone. Ironically I really like them on men and in my experience a lot of men like mine. Well they're welcome to it. I'll have it stuffed and framed for them. Shocked

Transition isn't a destination, it's a journey.
It ends when you are dead for the most part.
I think so. But there must be a point where you wake up in the morning, spend the day and go to bed without it ever entering your mind. But hey I'm an optimist.

Early on, I experienced 'it' just stopping functioning. It was great. I liked the peace and quiet.
Not all girls lose the use of their gear.
Then my sexuality went and started to wander.
Was I hetero female?
No, it seems I am demisexual.
I like men, they scare me though, and women, no real interest actually.
And yet my fiance is a transgender woman.
Life is confusing as transgender.
I wouldn't mind that, lose the function. I wished for it so many times from an early age. But it's still there probably driven by the big T, dammit. I'm not demisexual but obviously prefer to have a strong emotional connection. That's true of my wife who I obviously love dearly. Of course that's moot because she lost all interest in sex and despite her intelligence refuses to address the issue. She was no prude either. It is strange.

But these days I have to say most of my sexual attraction is directed at men. Yet I'm still attracted to women although I suspect it's largely driven by my little friend and T. With it gone I suspect it will wane. In fact I know it will.

I have experienced a few physiological changes. No body hair (awesome). Sore breasts for 2 years (unsure what was going on in them, they didn't get bigger). Everything else physiological is hard to see.
Not emotional and mental, HAH!, now that is a long story.
Yeah, I'm more empathic, moodier.
I can't handle violence in media anymore.
I used to be a hardcore wargamer. Now, my aggressive nature is gone.
I found that as well despite no hormones. Body hair, I wish but mine is and was scant and blonde. Sore breast no but they are bigger and an actual near B cup. Actually I have breasts, small though they are. I remember being grabbed by a friend in a spot of roguiesh fun only for him to back off when he grabbed tits. I wonder what I'd be like on hormones?

I was always moody, my boys hug me hard to when they see it. They're empathic plus they know it defuses me.

As for gaming. I always was into it but was never ever aggressive. As an actual soldier I was an absolute wimp. But I loved first person shooters even if I was terrible at it. But that's gone. I leave it to the boys now. I also avoid violence in the media now, difficult though that is with current events. Wars always stress me out. I was stressed out for the both the gulf wars even though it didn't involve me at all. Again I wonder on hormones would that be reinforced further.

You don't really have to take hormones and suffer from lots of dysphoria to be 'transgender'.
But here's the real question. How would you know you were transgender if you had nothing forcing you to doubt your identity in the first place?
I agree. I managed the dysphoria for years but it broke down in the end and there are times when I'm literally in tears sometimes. But I 'man up' and cope. Although I think coping is really a woman's thing. Women have to cope it's in the contract. So in a way coping by trying to be a man proves my femininity. If that's not contradictory.

The hormones fine-tuned my sense of self.
I think they released you. I think they release you from the male construct you and I are forced to live in.

I've tried to do that without hormones. But the only time it works is early in the mornings particularly when I don't have to get up early like now on the Easter holidays. The wife disappears off to work and the boys can get their own breakfast and I often slip into a half awake, half asleep dreamlike state where I'm now living as a woman. In fact the other morning I found myself imagining that I'd transitioned or at least now live as a woman, meeting my friend Mary as Marie and my wife being cool with it. Getting up and facting reality was no fun.

You're probably right that GRS isn't neccessary either for sex or seeing yourself a 'real woman'. In fact I've reached a point in my mind where I simply cannot see myself as a man in any form. I've tried. To me now in fact always men are other, women are like me. Much as I like men I'm not one of them.

To my mind it's not that I've changed but that I am now free to be myself at least internally. Now if only I can change the external me.

To quote Carolyn
In a few more years I doubt I will be even recognizable as the same person.

I envy both of you because I think that's so so true. You'll wonder why you ever doubted this was always inevitable.

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Post  Lesley Niyori on Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:05 pm

In a way Marie, one has to wonder, if the dysphoria was enough to make you suicidal, if you hate the part as much as you stated, why have you done nothing?

Wife and love? Sorry, simply not good enough. If she loves you, she won't make you live in pain.
If she'd make you live in that much pain, she doesn't actually love you.
If she doesn't love you, then loving her back, seems to indicate you don't love you enough as well.

Kids? Nope, not good enough. I have a son, he understands. My fiance has a 9-year-old, he understands too. She has a 13-year-old daughter, she's a teenager, they are only interested in themselves for 6 years Smile But no child is going to condemn you to a life of pain.

Hormones are not quite the same as GRS at the dollars and cents angle. And hormones are more overall than just addressing a specific body part. The only downside to anti-androgens is long term roughness on an internal organ. Easy to address for transgender women with an orchy and presto no need to address long term internal organ distress. And an orchy is a fast and simple procedure for the most part. I can't even picture a wife denying you that much.

If the wife is not demanding sexual function, there's little point in maintaining an unwelcome guest on your body. Vaginoplasty w/canal is intrusive. You don't need to get vaginoplasty WITH canal though. All you get out of having 'canal' is a place to put a man's cock to be blunt.
I stopped dilating, because A. I had given up ever getting a man, and B. thanks to finding my fiance, a woman, a penis simply isn't likely to ever be important to me.

Is it the cost? Is it your age?

Because here I am, at 57, staring down the barrel of becoming a genuine senior citizen in not too many years, but, I'm not planning to be in a pine box for a long time. Maybe not for another 30 years. And while my need for sex might not go anywhere any time soon, my need to take a bath isn't going away. And I'm glad I don't have to share my bath with that damned thing.

We both seem to agree, that "some women have a penis" is more a nice way of being inclusive and fair than it is anything that matters to our own heads. I'll say the words, and mean them genuinely for the benefit of any transgender woman trapped without any recourse, but, the truth is, I don't think women have a penis. Penises belong on men.

Of the non-binary crowd is a whole new hassle. I'm ok with people being non-binary.
But, when I hear their troubles, well, part of me does want to tell them, life would be easier for you if you made a predominant choice. That's just me saying, I'm in here, stuck being binary. It's like them asking me to join them as non-binary.

I'm just so damned glad I'm Canadian, and this hell wasn't inescapable.
My fiance doesn't seem to hate her penis as much as I hated mine. But, lately, it seems to be making her physically uncomfortable. Possibly the hormones are making it atrophy. I have some transgender female friends that seem to be able to use their's in the same ole way ok though.

Clearly, for me, GRS was life and death, even though the hormone therapy has delivered a greater range and volume of results in the long term for me. GRS is one way of course. It's gone, and it isn't coming back. Hormones can be taken, and then stopped. It's not like they are one way. Although some results might not dwindle after stopping. Socially, I am likely benefitting more from an increase in my bust, than a decrease in my panties. But I don't walk around naked.
I think top surgery for transgender men, is about the same. Socially, they get more from a lack of tits, than a lack of a pecker. We ain't going to be having sex with the whole town.

I didn't get GRS for the ability to fuck properly. I'd rather fake being asexual on most days.
Sex is indeed important in a marriage.
No sex likely means your marriage only exists on paper.
No amount of sex will make a loveless marriage work. I know this much. I was having regular sex with the ex right up to the week she said she wanted a separation. I don't know why she was having sex if she was planning to leave. I doubt she'd ever tell anyone either. No communication was one of my marriages biggest problems.

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Post  mariehart1 on Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:25 pm

Lesley Niyori wrote:In a way Marie, one has to wonder, if the dysphoria was enough to make you suicidal, if you hate the part as much as you stated, why have you done nothing?
I don't hate it so much as am increasingly uncomfortable with it. It wasn't a factor when I reached my low point. That came when I finally accepted in my mind that I was trans but hadn't completely accepted that in fact that meant I am a woman. I also realised that I had wasted my life attempting to pursue a Quixotic career dream. So aged forty plus I had a dead end job, no money, no partner and still living with my elderly Mother. I saw no way forward. I was wrong about that of course. Everyone I came out to was 100% supportive. But I'm not a very strong person and soon hid away again.

Wife and love? Sorry, simply not good enough. If she loves you, she won't make you live in pain.
If she'd make you live in that much pain, she doesn't actually love you.
If she doesn't love you, then loving her back, seems to indicate you don't love you enough as well.
Maybe.


Easy to address for transgender women with an orchy and presto no need to address long term internal organ distress. And an orchy is a fast and simple procedure for the most part. I can't even picture a wife denying you that much.
Yes it's an attractive idea but she isn't denying it to me. I am.
Is it the cost? Is it your age?
No just me. I'm 59.

We both seem to agree, that "some women have a penis" is more a nice way of being inclusive and fair than it is anything that matters to our own heads. I'll say the words, and mean them genuinely for the benefit of any transgender woman trapped without any recourse, but, the truth is, I don't think women have a penis. Penises belong on men.
Can only agree.

Of the non-binary crowd is a whole new hassle. I'm ok with people being non-binary.
But, when I hear their troubles, well, part of me does want to tell them, life would be easier for you if you made a predominant choice. That's just me saying, I'm in here, stuck being binary. It's like them asking me to join them as non-binary.
I do scratch my head about non binary people. I agree pick a side.

Personally the issue for me isn't my genitals or sex but the need to be accepted as a woman. I've had a few moments experience of that. I want more but I simply cannot make the next step. I blame no but myself.

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Post  Lesley Niyori on Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:13 pm

Confidence is a major barrier.

It took ME a long time see me as a woman. It didn't actually take long to get treated as a woman.

I'm unsure I pass. I'm fairly sure it doesn't matter. I'm fairly sure most of those treating me as a woman, are significantly lacking in assholery. I'm fairly sure those giving me sneers jeers and rude responses seen or unseen, would do the same to a fat cisfemale too. Because some people are assholes.

But as I said, I was likely the hardest one to please.
And 59 ain't dead dear Smile I went under the knife at 55.

Still, even without GRS or even hormones, in the end, you have to be your real self.
But only you can give you that.

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Post  MichaelaSJ on Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:19 pm

Lesley Niyori wrote:I'm unsure I pass.
Passing is what you do when you check yourself ONCE in the hallway mirror and you walk out your front door.

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Post  Lesley Niyori on Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:32 am

I like that Miki Smile

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Post  CarolynAH on Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:35 am

When talking about non binary gender, so often I feel like some just like sitting outside gender expression norms but will sometimes choose he or she pronouns. And some are s bit fluid or rejecting both ends as much as possible. I don't know I can't imagine myself ever being comfortable in between.

While I don't have a burning need for love in my life. I wouldn't mind finding a nice woman to be with. Or some girlfriends to go out with. I still find it hard to believe that I pass at all. Oh goodness I was chatting with a friend when a woman came up to get a package. Oh goodness she was almost as tall as me. Sorry... It's a rare thing for me and hard to not feel drawn.

I couldn't imagine going back or doing without either GCS or HRT. One thing my relationship with Liam made clear. I love intimacy so much more now though I am still working on learning my way to fully orgasm and not just ride a few waves.

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