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Post  CarolynAH on Wed May 15, 2019 8:39 am

I have submitted my withdrawal from giving a fuck about romantic anything with men even if they are trans and in most ways the local transgender community. (Too many problematic individuals who I don't have any desire to spend time with.)

The problem is it seems the the most active in the the first group I joined are ten years or more older than me. I mean it's fun no matter what to get out. But bingo is not what I want. But it has served the purpose, these lesbians are fun in their own ways and one of the sub groups I was most afraid of but has turned out to be mostly a non event. But damn I want to dance or something.
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Post  Lesley Niyori on Wed May 15, 2019 1:55 pm

I can relate in a variety of ways.

Well, my body is 57. So I'm not allowed to associate with the youth groups.
Who cares, my mind is stuck at 7 in just enough ways, that I don't even understand teens either.
So I don't really want to hang out with them (I tried briefly back at 5).

I try and do adult things, which often confuse me. Dating, an impressively pointless stupid effort for those 3 years. First I wasn't post-op initially and did NOT want to be with a man while I had a penis. So why was I even trying to date one? Second, I wasn't even emotionally ready for a man when I was finally post-op.

The thing that makes D'arcy special, is she's good at letting me be me.
She knows I struggle with adult behaviour frequently out of the blue.

My interests rarely sync up with a lot of people. But I guess I have so many hobbies, people find me 'interesting'. Plus I'm great to have around if you have kids. Because odds are I want to do what they want to do. I make a great distractor. The kids and I can play Lego or colour while the adults socialize.

I have trouble at group meetings, because I talk about the most unusual things, in the most awkward of ways. I tend to just blurt out things without realizing it might have been unwise. I just plain talk too much. I tend to interrupt. I don't realize I'm doing it.

But I also come from a distant time. My mind is largely still in the 50s even though I was born in the 60s because I studied the 40s for the first 30 years of this body's existence. So all the data in my head is largely out of whack with today. All I know how to be is a 50s housewife. And considering I was a defacto stay at home mom for 20 years, and only really experienced 5 years of conventional employment in the 80s (if you discount the 4 years as the graveyard shift of a convenience store, where all I did was clean up restock and listen to the drone of machines for 8 hours). On my resume, all I have to offer is 20 years housewife and writer of romance novels or a landscape artist. Because mentioning the 80s is simply not worth it.

Well, the reality is, I don't have memories past 2012. The rest is just data in my head I don't recall learning.

We have a PFLAG group in town (Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays). Almost no lesbians and gays. Well, that is cisgender and not transgender. I'm demisexual, D'arcy is pansexual. And two of the other kids is a bit young to really know their persuasion with certainty.

I meet with a group of transgender persons on Tuesdays (twice so far and it is a 10 meeting duration). A random mix of ages and types. Finding a single person in 10 you can relate to well enough that you remain friends with beyond the span of the meetings is rare.

There are likely 20 transgender persons in town all ages and types. I'm probably marrying the only one I can interact with meaningfully. That is what I call very lucky. I'd be surprised if I found more than 5 friends in a place the size of Toronto.

I think, if not for D'arcy being in my life, my future, if I decided to have one at all, would probably be very soon to be one where I claimed to be cisgender and acted as if I had always been. Not because I was afraid to be real. But because I had no real reason to be visibly transgender.

Part of the real problem of being transgender is it simply shouldn't be a detail society should make us have to endure making a fuss over. The bathroom thing for instance, why the fuck is anyone interested in what I urinate out of? The only people molesting children are religious leaders. Keep THEM out of the fucking restrooms.

It was excruciatingly painful trying to date. I think most of my troubles, were I was using a method, that hasn't been worth shit for 10 years. Match and all of the slices of its empire are simply too 2000-2010. I should have been using Facebook. Facebook is actually free, and not some bullshit pretend 'free'. And it's a lot less vulnerable to fakery and scams.

I'm sure glad I don't need to care though now.

I'm looking forward to being a teenager on a senior's pension and getting older and older reading my romance novel collection Smile When not playing with my Barbies and my Legos or making a model.

The ONLY 'group' I seem to enjoy, is you guys right here.

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Post  xfortran on Wed May 15, 2019 8:49 pm

I am not in the same position but I certainly understand; being out in the sticks makes things more challenging then I would like logistically.  The 'local' trans community is fragmented and cliquish from the few times I attended.  They were however trying to do community type things which is important but is not feasible for me personally.  And much like Lesley, there is a large percentage that clearly are not a good fit for me.  (and that is not even considering the kink aspects of me)

Community and the like seem to be rather elusive at the moment but like everything, steps and more steps to reach an unknown destination.  

I should look at lesbian groups at some point, so thank you for the idea Smile

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Post  CarolynAH on Wed May 15, 2019 11:48 pm

I am sorry Lesley you struggle in that way. I mean while at times I feel awkward and unsure like I did as a teenager. I am very much not one. My emotional change in the past 18 months has been stark. Painful and full of swings at times. But I am nothing like the person who couldn't even enjoy a hug from their kids anymore or too chicken to tell their wife how her aggressive behavior in seeking intercourse to the point of coercion via emotional blackmail was a huge issue.

xFortran
Tread very carefully and respectfully in lesbian circles. There is a lot of crap they endure from men and and curious "tourist girls". Going there seeking dates and romance right from the start is a great way to get in trouble. And frankly there are TERFs and just plain ignorance so a thick skin and patience is needed. Be sure to investigate details before fully engaging. You can sometimes spot groups that won't accept you by the language they use.
Frequent use of womyn is a common TERF warning flag.
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Post  MichaelaSJ on Thu May 16, 2019 9:18 am

CarolynAH wrote:Tread very carefully and respectfully in lesbian circles.
Remember, they (collectively) don't need us and we shouldn't need them.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
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Post  xfortran on Thu May 16, 2019 11:21 am

Carolyn
Thank you for the advice. When I was contemplating the ramifications of outwardly changing, romantic relationships was one of the things I realized would be more difficult to find. Reading through the old forums also had made that clear to me (long way of saying I don't expect romance ... ever)


Miki
I am not quite sure how you are meaning that...

Last I knew lesbians were people and quite frankly I need people(friends); ergo they are a potential source.

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Post  Celia Eriksson on Thu May 16, 2019 12:39 pm

Hi Everyone!

Yes I would advise you to be careful. yes they are people, they are human and obviously the default of a Lesbian, be she quite androgenous or otherwise, is not necessarily TERF, there are though many that I have encountered that are, bigtime.

You may well leave any situation, which can only mean a club or a generic meeting of some kind, feeling quite deflated and perhaps even humiliated. I received a comment in a pub some years ago, it was from a lesbian couple that did not even know me, "I'll bet he has a hairy back!"...  I felt pretty awful and humiliated when that quite spiteful comment was made... and angry, and I rarely get angry. I'm not saying anything like that will happen to you, but you may be resented and made unwelcome. You can find romance, I'm not really having much luck lately, but be optimistic, I am sure it will come.

Well, I'm not trying to teach you or anyone else how to suck eggs, but I have encountered and know of many examples that LGBT is not an all inclusive club that cares for others under the rainbow umbrella outside their kind.

Celia xx

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Post  CarolynAH on Fri May 17, 2019 6:16 am

I have yet in my many conversations been treated as anything else but a woman. Even when I am very clear that I am trans. I went to coming out support group last night. There was another transwoman who was interesting mix of nerdy, colorful, and butch. I liked her, but was curious about the history and feelings that drove aspects of her mixed.presentation. One woman backed out of a afternoon walk I am curious if she will contact me again. But she is a nurse and that is just how it goes. Though I can't help but worry that is just the first of many ghostings.

The thing I am finding is we share so much coming out and emotional reaction. Each time i go out and connect I do feel more comfortable. I have also been helping one woman who is having marriage issues because of trauma. She has been very encouraging she also helped with something I have been terrified about sharing with anyone.




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Post  MichaelaSJ on Fri May 17, 2019 5:12 pm

xfortan

I was not very specific in my use of the term collectively. I divide the LGB....T term by separating out the T because the LGB part is really about sexuality and the T part is about gender.

I was wrong in stating lesbians don't want us, but be careful. Many lesbians are close to being TERFs and I would scope out any lesbian bar before walking into one.

Also, many gay bars are not trans-friendly as they want partners with boy stuff.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
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Post  Lesley Niyori on Fri May 17, 2019 7:18 pm

Yep, what Miki said.

Some TERFs will flat out deny a transgender woman is a woman, and some gay men will just disregard a transgender man if he doesn't have an arrived into life with it penis.

And sometimes they will 'seem' like nice people, but, in the end, if one of the main organizers of your local LGBT Pride event is a gay man who says a transgender man is not a man, then it's clear they are all about the LGB and not so interested in those of us in the T. And they might not be friendly to intersex as well.

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Post  CarolynAH on Fri May 17, 2019 8:27 pm

While I don't deny there are some really TERF lesbians. Many are just ignorant. And if you can take it, you might be a positive influence. My problem has been that I have a hard time being succinct. And I am still learning how to communicate it best and present myself. What I like about this community is unlike straight woman or many transwoman spaces I don't feel any pressure to "look feminine". I will never go butch as that's just playing with dysphoric fire. But I am happy to feel free to find my own comfortable space.

Gay men and transguys is tricky. But it can and does happen. I was bored and ignored in a queer bar while a trans-masc friend was hit on by two men. YRMV. There are some things some gay men seek gay transguys out for.

And yes gender and sexuality are different. But really with most transgender identifying people we are far more likely to be sexually flexible or homosexual than any other population. And really how does one use homo/hetero in a non-binary context? To me we are all linked and honestly I feel the transgender community is more of a bus stop anyway.

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Post  Celia Eriksson on Fri May 17, 2019 8:46 pm

CarolynAH wrote:I have yet in my many conversations been treated as anything else but a woman.

Hi Carolyn,

I do doubt that any of us have found otherwise. I had not spoken to the women I mentioned in my post, for example, and have not conversed with them since. It is best not to enter conversation with bigots and I certainly would never do so. It does not worry me too much from a romantic aspect, I am not interested in intentions of any women anyway, Lesbian or otherwise.

I do not go as far as separating the T from LGB Miki, I believe we need all the support we can get. As I said, it is not panarctic, but I do think the majority of LGB support us.

Celia xx

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Post  CarolynAH on Sat May 18, 2019 12:06 am

Celia Eriksson wrote:
I do doubt that any of us have found otherwise. I had not spoken to the women I mentioned in my post, for example, and have not conversed with them since.

I agree there are always people who feel compelled to vomit out whatever shitty thouhts they have as if they were the sole bearers of truth and you are just a lost and confused child. I have lived with that sort of bigot my entire life. I call him brother. I am glad he was a chicken and decided to STFU at the breakfast table and avoided talking directly to me the last time we met. I am mostly invisible in the lesbian bars I have been in but when I go it's not totally to people who I don't know I am usually with someone or meeting someone. I suspect no romantic relationship will ever come of it but I don't care right now. If I can make friends elsewhere and meet and learn from new people that's all I want right now. I moved to here two years ago and still have few female friends because I was always busy entertaining transgender men. That phase is over. I have lived a life depressingly empty of female friends. I hope to fix that.

I don't care to wear makeup most days but I wish there was a "I don't give a fuck about what you think" pallet or a "I bite... Off cocks". eyeliner.
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Post  xfortran on Sat May 18, 2019 1:20 am

CarolynAH wrote:
I don't care to wear makeup most days but I wish there was a "I don't give a fuck about what you think" pallet or a "I bite... Off cocks". eyeliner.

Well that was good for a smile  (rough day at work) ... I am sure there is something that can be found ... given some of the names of makeup these days.

CarolynAH wrote:
To me we are all linked and honestly I feel the transgender community is more of a bus stop anyway.

I wanted to throw this out there too ... this is something my therapist has hinted at (because she rarely tells me anything but rather lets me figure stuff out on my own); and one gay friend I have doesn't know how to relate to me as trans (although he is getting better) but he can relate to me being lesbian.

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Post  CarolynAH on Sat May 18, 2019 5:31 am

Happy to bring a smile! I am not that salty 99% of the time outside of my own head. Though this week I have been really emotionally intense. This is the massively toned down retype.
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