Coming out to Family that are not particularly understanding?

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Post  Lenneth on Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:48 am

Ok this is Hypothetical but to be done in a way that it can be adapted to a person's situation and used for a template/guide of potential ways for a person with not particularly understanding or knowledgeable family to come out to them and have at worst only a minimal chance of it resulting in a mess/loss of family.

Scenario 01:

Family member is your last surviving parent whom you get along well with and have a good relationship with outside of them not knowing you are trans/whatever (you have kept it secret for decades), Parent is Religious, but receptive to reasoning and logic as well as a fair bit of scientific data, but not understanding towards people with gender issues out of simply not knowing enough outside of stereotypes and stigmas.


How to handle this?

My own thoughts are to slowly introduce them to factual scientific data bit by bit over time and build up an understanding, then when you think the time is right spill the beans.

but what methods would you suggest?

More Scenarios to come later
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Post  Lesley Niyori on Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:47 pm

In most cases, a lack of support seems to be driven by religious belief.

In most cases, you can get an atheist, who was once very religious (thus will know the Bible fairly well in most cases) who can use family member(s), friends Bible-based bias against them.

I, for instance, am VERY well aware that for Christians
1. Jesus doesn't share his capacity to judge. So you can tell the target to immediately discontinue judging you. It's not their right according to their own faith.
2. Jesus came to save you from the Old Testament. So you can tell them to stop beating you over the head with it (that one particular portion of Leviticus). You might also remind them if they are going to berate you for that one particular sentence, you will be in your right to make them uphold the rest of Leviticus (it's essentially impossible to do here in 2019).

If the above doesn't work, you basically might as well stop trying.
But you could at least demand they read the entire Bible as it's clear they haven't.

I have no clever words to convince a biased atheist/pagan family member.
But I don't think I've met any biased atheists/pagans.

I'd advise against using the 'science' card.
The ignorant are rarely sufficiently educated to understand any science you might offer.
Sadly, that applies to almost anyone though. I rarely meet any capable scientists.

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Post  Celia Eriksson on Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:55 am

Hi Lenneth,

Lesley has the religious side covered and I quite agree about all she writes. If one was to approach from the scientific side, it would be found that little is known as to the reasoning of why we are born different.

How someone might broach the subject initially, is probably unique to the relatonship and so I will not attempt to advise upon that. So let me write of the few things I know for sure and it will, by nature, touch upon homosexuality, for studies upon transgender are very few, almost impossible to find, the one I found also touches upon it but does dismiss it to a degree. Now, I know that will not be welcome in some quarters, but I believe there is common ground there. It is a huge subject, so I will have to skirt on the basics, because I'm going shopping in half an hour!

Let's start with the physical. Studies have taken place where certain differences have been found. Differences in the brain of males, (Lindstrom, Berglund & Savic) that prefer other males, gonad size and natural hormonal levels. I am sure I don't need to explain all, but the brain study was most enlightening. I am no expert in neuro-science.

https://www.versiondaily.com/the-male-homosexual-brain-structural-and-functional-difference/

Now a quote from one study:

Early postmortem studies of transsexual neurological differentiation was focused on the hypothalamic and amygdala region of the brain. Using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), some trans women were found to have female typical putamen that were larger in size than cisgender males.[11] Some trans women have also shown a female typical central part of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc) and interstitial nucleus of the anterior hypothalamus number 3 (INAH-3), looking at the number of neurons found within each.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/

Quickly on to the socialogical theory of why individuals, if you believe in 'natural selction', as to why males would be born so.

This is very quickly the outline, I may explain more later, but I have to hurry: Man is a hunter gatherer. Over tens of thousands of generations, men hunted, women gathered or stayed 'home'. Man generally lived in tribes, small groups of maybe as few as thirty to groups in the low hundreds at the most. Tribes would fight tribes. Some men would remain when most men hunted. Some men would gather with the women also. There is also the additional theory, (mine), that some men that were effeminate could deflect men from their own and other tribes from 'taking' the best women.

Now I know lots are going to pooh my theory and perhaps the ones offered, but I have not read of any alternate reasoning.

Celia xx

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Post  Lesley Niyori on Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:10 pm

Some things are just hard to find data on.

Human civilization has evolved. We now eat food that is massively modified, livestock fed substances such as hormones. There's a LOT of female hormone in the meat we eat.

Our water is affected by a lot of weird stuff from farm runoff to industrial operations.
And we are drinking this stuff and so is our food supplies.

I often wonder what all of this is doing to our species progressively and these days constantly.
They say male sperm count is suffering.

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Post  Celia Eriksson on Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:21 pm

Hi Lesley,

That is quite true, of course. Perhaps the cis people should preserve sperm for the future, else there will be a problem from these influences. I don't think it goes beyond that though, I believe we are born so and I will explain for why.

This could also help answer the OP too, that's you Lenneth! Coz there have been transgender people since time immemorial. I 'refound' an article that I read some time ago now, written by a transgender woman. It is a brief view, but quite correct. These transgender people did not have exposure to plastics, cfcs and other so called hormonal influences, that are espoused as the 'reason' we exist. There are 6 in this series, this one is of the ancients and though it mentions priestesses, it continues with more interesting stuff too.

http://bilerico.lgbtqnation.com/2008/02/transgender_history_trans_expression_in.php

I hate plastics. I bought a nice 'Cute Cat 2020' calendar today, (I know, I always buy it early!!!!). I could not buy one that was not wrapped in plastic. Inside was a little diary too, both were wrapped in big plastic cover, then both had separate plastic covers underneath...… Grrrrr!!!!!

Celia xx

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Post  xfortran on Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:03 pm

I doubt I do things in the "best" way...

Personally I'd take the plunge and tell the whole truth. And be fully prepared to write off the relationship as they are religious (there are nuances to religiousness - as we probably all know some people are more open/empathetic/spiritual then dogmatic).

I doubt I would even bother with the explanations unless they asked questions (only one person in my extended family asked questions (she is lesbian and a Dr), and I am the spawn of satan according to my father...my that part went well (as expected))

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Post  MichaelaSJ on Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:41 am

xfortran wrote:...Personally I'd take the plunge and tell the whole truth.  
It takes courage to come out. It took me +50 years to understand what I was hiding and then I simply did a knowledge dump of who I was to my family and some close friends.

I know it is easy for me to say that if someone is reluctant to accept me - then they aren't worth my continued relationship with them. I didn't lose anyone in my exchange, but maybe that was because of the makeup of my family and friends.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
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Post  Celia Eriksson on Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:53 pm

Yes Miki, I always pooh anyone with negative vibes. I have new neighbours, lesbians with no less than two young children, about 3 and 5 I guess, boys. They are quite noisy, but I don't mind coz children generally are. But surprisingly for me, the one I thought I'd like best, tall, short hair and muscular made a comment today that was quite nasty as I walked by struggling with my grocery shop from the parking bays, I should have made two carries. It was kinda 'good grief, that's it, is it?'. They only moved in last weekend a couple of doors down, but I think someone has poisoned their thoughts upon me, I have a fair idea who that was. I will charm them eventually, but there you go.

Anyway, the attitude is quite correct! pooh to all of them that ae small minded enough to have such an attitude. It was easier for me, from a young gay man to old maid, never really had the big coming out as being female scenario, more of a long, protracted metamorphasis that surprised.... nobody.

Back to the OP, I agree with xfortran. Take the plunge, a few shocks and then contentment as you are. But don't expect the 'sarcies' to end there, ya just have to live with them. for why? Because you can. It's not hard and it's the best gift you can give yourself, not living in grey shadows, but being colourful you.

Celia xx



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Post  MichaelaSJ on Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:08 am

I think I have grown past most of my prejudices but there was a time I didn't like Filipinos or Chinese. No rhyme or reason for doing so - I just did. I lived next to a shipboard division of Filipinos while on my Navy ship in Vietnam so that may have clouded my acceptance of that particular nationality.

Today I accept nearly everything and everyone (except Trump and his Trumpeteers). Age does bring some benefit, I guess.

Your neighbor dissing you is no longer conceivable to me - yet, I know that I will be called a slur in some locales. How I would respond will necessarily involve my physical (or lack of) interjection into the comment. Fifty years ago black eyes and bruised knuckles may have occurred.

I don't know what to say to you that will bridge the sensibility gap between you and your neighbor.
I would not let her diss slide: but how you assert yourself is going to take a lot more tactful attitude than I can describe in this note.

Stand tall and let us know what you do!

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451
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Post  Celia Eriksson on Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:47 pm

Hi Miki!!!

The electric went off a while ago, just in the middle of an online chess game! Well, I will no doubt get the chance to show them that I am quite normal, I hope I am, I am a bit nutty I suppose. It don't bother me that much to be honest.

I don't care about the colour of someone's skin, where they come from, their religion or even their politics. I would talk to Mr. Trump same as anyone else, for it's not his fault that he is misguided. Perhaps one day he will do good stuff for all humans, not just the preferred ones, whoever they may be! Latinos, well here I guess it's more Spanish, Portuguese and that, are very warm people with a great sense of living life to the full and are quite relaxed in their outlook. I culd never imagine holding something against them, just because that's who they are, that just don't make sense.

Chinese are clever and though their government is a bit strict on them with all the political stuff, I have a lot of respect for them and their country. I know a young Filipino and she is very nice too, I can't envisage why anyone would be horrible to her just coz she's Filipino, again it would be stupidity beyond belief. One day in the long distant future, perhaps, maybe, hopefully, that wonderful day will come when people realise working together as one, showing respect for all others is finally realised and racism will be seen as a very strange, misguided attitude of days long gone by. That will be a very fine day, I think.

Celia xx




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Post  MichaelaSJ on Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:05 pm

In the U.S. we allow foreign workers to take jobs where there are not a lot of available citizen workers to fill the need. It is called an H1B visa. (Trump even uses this type of visa at his Mar a Lago resort in Miami).

When I was in the convalescent hospital last month there were a lot of foreign nurses/nurse aids/housekeepers who were here on the H1B visa.

I made it a habit to ask everyone where they were from. Mostly from the Philipines, but also from East and West Africa, India, Bangladesh, China.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451
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Post  Lenneth on Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:02 pm

please just close this, I was hoping to create a usefull resource with it, but now it is far to off topic to be of use to anyone. Sad
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Post  Celia Eriksson on Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:57 pm

Hi Lenneth!

Well, there was quite a lot of input there early on. I think Lesley made some great points and both Miki and I did too, I hope, albeit more scientific. But I have to admit that by the end the subject did stray a bit, so I have to abide by your wish as the opening poster. So, the subject is now closed. Sorry, we did try and help you and I truly started posting that way, but I am guilty as the rest for allowing it to wander off subject.

Closed down.

Celia xx

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