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Post  Celia Eriksson on Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:37 pm

Hi Everyone!

So Donald Trump and his wife have both tested + for Covid-19. It is a dilemna that will rock the USA. It is only just over four weeks before the American people go to the polls and the POTUS election don't wait for nobody. It could be that the VP Pence will take over? Or a last minute rush to choose another, should the POTUS not feel well at such an important time.

But who will the GOP choose? Who is there to take up the reins? Pence, Pelosi?

Edit: Oh, I hear he is going to hospital, I do hope he has a speedy recovery and I feel for those close to him. This virus is a terrible blight, I truly hope it will disappear soon.

Celia xx

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Covid: Anyone can get it! Mtm  Covid: Anyone can get it! Ancestralnewhomeandrespectednations-2Covid: Anyone can get it! Kickitout                                                          
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Post  mariehart1 on Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:28 pm

Pence will take over if Trump is incapacitated. But if Trump dies. Pence will not necessarily be POTUS. Unless nominated by the Republicans. They'll have to nominate a candidate.

Pelosi will only take over if Pence is incapacitated.

It's all a little bit unprecedented.

I won't wish evil on anyone. Even Trump.

But you reap what you sow.

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Post  MichaelaSJ on Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:21 am

Actually, if Trump dies before January 20, 2021, then Mike Pence WILL become the POTUS: at least until the current term expires.

We then come to what amounts to a law school exam question on constitutional law. What happens to the GOP ticket if Trump dies before the election on November 3, 2020 and what happens if he is elected once more on November 3, 2020 but dies before January 20, 2021.

It is interesting that there have been candidates (not a POTUS candidate) who have died before their election date and have gone on to be elected, or have died after they were elected but before being sworn in. Obviously, they cannot take the office because they are dead. The individual who came in second does not get the position and depending upon the state where the election was held can either; 1) a successor is appointed by that state's governor will assume the office or, 2) another election would take place with no one filling the seat in the meantime.

But the federal election of the POTUS has not faced this dilemma in the past. I don't think Pence will automatically become the POTUS is Trump dies, either before or after the election.

Two solutions come to mind: 1) Pence sues in the courts to have his name elevated to the POTUS, and 2) the House of Representatives takes control of the election and the Speaker of the House would then become the POTUS.

The SCOTUS determined the outcome of the Bush/Gore election in 2000. At that time the SCOTUS had a 5 to 4 conservative majority and the vote to allow Bush to be the winner of the Florida election, and hence, of the U.S. was decided along a conservative 5 to 4 vote.

For different reasons, Trump is trying to stack the SCOTUS with another very conservative judge so that the SCOTUS will be a conservative 6 to 3 majority and if the decision ever got to the SCOTUS, they would likely vote to seat Pence as the POTUS.

SO, VOTE, DAMMIT VOTE! We cannot stand another 4 more years of a Trump or Trump clone presidency. Trump is a wacko - Pence is decidedly an evangelical christian bent on having the U.S. become an evangelical christian nation - and that will be a very bad thing.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451
“lifelong atheist, not afraid of burning in hell,” Ron Reagan FFRF
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Post  MichaelaSJ on Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:47 am

An interesting discussion was posted today. It doesn't give a clear answer, but does provide additional information to make your head spin a little faster, or slower - I don't know:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/10/trump-positive-what-happens-if-candidate-incapacitated-or-dies.html

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451
“lifelong atheist, not afraid of burning in hell,” Ron Reagan FFRF
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Post  Celia Eriksson on Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:14 pm

Hi Miki,

Full of 'ifs' and 'buts'. And not surprisingly so, for I believe even the top constitutional experts in the USA are finding it difficult to provide clarity.

Not wishing ill upon Mr. President at all, for I do wish him a speedy recovery and that he is quite well soon. But, as the article states, such things need to be, and most certainly are being thought of.

For the timing of any Presidential candidate's withdrawal would possibly produce different outcomes. And for why is quite obvious. Be any incapacitation take place after the election, after the candidate has clearly been in full control and shown to be fit to stand, the VP would most certainly take the position.  

Were it found the candidate was not fit to stand before the election, there are different paths.

One is where the candidate recovered just before the election with his name on the ballot. raising further possibilities. One example would be another gets elected to stand whilst incapacitated and the incumbent or challenger makes a sudden full recovery on November 2nd.

Or another is a recovery at anytime shortly after the election, before January... Most candidates would contest the selection of his replacement and would hold quite a strong case as his name was upon the ballot..

Actually, it is quite a nightmare and almost impossible to imagine which course it might turn, for only time can tell anyone, what constitutionally would be the correct legal path, if any, and it may throw many a spanner into the whole procedure involving US elections.

Let us hope the president recovers swiftly.

Celia xx

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Covid: Anyone can get it! Mtm  Covid: Anyone can get it! Ancestralnewhomeandrespectednations-2Covid: Anyone can get it! Kickitout                                                          
Take chances, make mistakes. That’s how you grow.
Mary Tyler Moore (1936-2017).
Celia Eriksson
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Post  MichaelaSJ on Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:52 pm

Celia Eriksson wrote:Let us hope the president recovers swiftly.
Not a universally shared sentiment.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451
“lifelong atheist, not afraid of burning in hell,” Ron Reagan FFRF
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Post  Celia Eriksson on Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:55 pm

Hi Miki,

That well may be, but I cannot wish ill upon Donald, it is not in my being.

Also, the possible constitutional crisis that could occur is something all Americans and to some degree the rest of the world, is something that should worry us all.... more so than one's politics.

I hope you understand, that I lay at the centre, I like common sense in all things and whilst I do lean towards a greener, fairer world, I choose to be neither right or left wing, I like a fair balance of ideals with the afore said common sense prevailing.

Celia xx

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Covid: Anyone can get it! Mtm  Covid: Anyone can get it! Ancestralnewhomeandrespectednations-2Covid: Anyone can get it! Kickitout                                                          
Take chances, make mistakes. That’s how you grow.
Mary Tyler Moore (1936-2017).
Celia Eriksson
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Post  MichaelaSJ on Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:10 pm

I very much appreciate and respect your sentiment and consideration for all things living.

But, and this is only my sentiment: It is best to cut a cancer out before the entire body is ravaged and dies.

Trump is a cancer on the very soul of my Country, my democracy and the future of my children.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451
“lifelong atheist, not afraid of burning in hell,” Ron Reagan FFRF
MichaelaSJ
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