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The sexualities can HAVE Pride back

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Post  Lesley Niyori Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:43 pm

I'm rebelling as a whole.

I don't really care if anyone has a clue what my sexuality is, to be honest.

When I say I'm female, let them think I'm straight until corrected. I'm marrying another transgender female. But I'm not a lesbian. I'm demisexual. I won't give a damn about another person's sexuality if I don't like the person inside.

But my sexuality isn't something I want to advertise.

And Pride is a celebration of freedom of sexuality as far as I'm concerned. Loud and Proud is all about Queer and Here (as I see it). It isn't about marginalized people as far as I'm concerned. Or the letters of the acronym would include colours and ethnicity and ableness and economics. And be quite the acronym to spell too.

I'm not hating on Pride, I'm just not planning to celebrate my being transgender at Pride any more. I'm no longer shouting out LGBT. I'm taking my T back. They can call it LGB again.

My day is Transgender Day of Awareness, and I plan to observe our Day of Remembrance.

I don't hate the straight, and I am not anti cisgender. But I'm tired of the straight-thinking they need anything special, and I'm tired of being hated by gay men and lesbian women who are also cisgender. They're ok demanding equality for themselves but throwing me under a bus.

I don't want their lukewarm support from their numbers. I want society to understand, that many transgender persons are straight, religious, conservative-minded persons. I want society to understand, I'm not about my sexuality. I want society to understand that we are all ordinary people.

When I participated in Pride Toronto in 2016 and watched a batch of people walk past in nothing but running shoes, I was uncomfortable with that as well. Guys walking around being over-the-top gay, flashy garish colours and over-exaggerated costumes was actually something my senses had trouble with. I'm a boring small-town girl. I had on an average top, an average skirt, sandals, and lipstick. My hair was ordinary. And I had Frank my teddy bear with me. I was still new to being public, and I wasn't yet post-op and I was sort of scared a bit.
I'm not a prude, I'm innocent. And I was only 5 years old at the time.

I sometimes wonder, what does all the news, and craziness mean to other young transgender persons? I have a local transgender female friend who is currently 12 heading to 13. When we get together, we talk about things. And I can tell she's a kid still too. She's in Jr High, and out. And it is hard on her. I so often want to march up there and scare the shit out of the people bullying her. But that would never end well.

A 13-year-old can know full well they are transgender, but likely isn't ready for all the sexuality angle.
I've been kitchen help at LGBT-based camps with a focus on transgender. And a group of 40 or so transgender kids, will still be a group of 40 kids. They will act like kids. They want to explore their gender identities. They likely are not as desperate to be quite so sexual. That was my observation.

So I'm quitting the sexuality game. Not saying it is in any fashion 'wrong'. I'm just saying I want to focus on my gender needs. I'm tired of fighting with the cis inside of the LGBT. I belong anywhere a woman is expected. I am not a mentally ill man. I am not an attack on female rights. I am not a predator. I'm just a woman damn it. You'll find it easier to find a lesbian acting inappropriate in the lady's room than you will a transgender woman.

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Post  mariehart1 Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:11 pm

Yes indeed. I cannot really find much in fault of what you say.

Yes I'm the T in LGBT and indeed the B.

But in reality I'm a sixty something woman with slightly conservative and slightly liberal viewpoint who likes sex. But who never ever got enough. But I'm a kind person according to my wife. So I never took advantage.

Unfortunately I was born male so I've been propelled into a label.

You previously asked about the endgame perhaps mine is to be one of the older ladies who live in our cul de sac including the previous owner of this house which we've just moved into. Her name was Marie. Quite the coincidence. Examing the pots and the plants left in the garden. This is woman after my own heart. Herbs abound. I found a plum Bush. There's daffodils, crocuses and Tulips.

She'll never be dead with me taking over her lovely garden.

But I digress.

I don't particularly relate to being LGBT. I'm just me.

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Post  Kidagakash Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:40 pm

I think the entire pride movement for any facet of culture is overblown. Nobody should have to feel shame about who they are, but that doesn't necessitate the over compensatory flaunting of our differences. I feel that kind of thinking only drives people further apart from each other. I know there are some who do not see it like that, and embellishing their egos with a manner of pride is their survival mechanism, but I think in general it causes more harm than good. There is a difference between solidarity and separatism, and a lot of people fail to make that distinction.

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Post  mariehart1 Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:03 am

I can only agree. If you look at the media at least here in Ireland and the UK media. They have made being gay mainstream. In fact normal. But that only reflects reality. Certainly not everywhere in the world.

But it's never that easy. Two of my sisters in law are very pro LGBT. My wife was always tolerant. But the sister in law are actually very active.

But I'm transgender and that is a challenge for my wife. The others don't know and I observe their complex reactions.

I imagine I wonder how they would see me?


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Post  Lesley Niyori Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:10 am

"I imagine I wonder how they would see me?"

I have wondered that as well.

Some local experiences are telling.

Lindsay Pride in the Park (what passes for our 'parade') is run by a reasonably nice gay man 30s/40s. He's 'young' to my eyes. And he's not willing to see a transgender man as a man. Oh, he doesn't say anything, but you can see it in his behaviour. Another active local person, a transgender man of about the same age, and it's clear, "sorry, but you have a vagina, you're not man enough for my needs."

I have another gay man who lives near me. Nice enough. But he can't really comprehend that a penis doesn't make you a man. A room with a post-op transgender woman (me) and 2 other pre-op transgender women, is still 3 women. Get all 4 of us a bit drunk and playful, and sure, lots of things can happen. But you're still having sex with 3 women. Even if 2 can screw your ass from behind like you might get with another male.

He ended up being very confused by that evening Smile

Cis gay men and cis lesbian women are simply no different from cisgender straight people when it comes to understanding transgender people. They are totally fixated on body parts.

Gender is only really understood by transgender people and a few fluke examples of non-transgender persons. Being part of the LGBT scene doesn't make them more sympathetic or understanding at all. In fact, they can be even worse (consider TERFS).

I'm glad we have Transgender Day of Awareness.
Because THAT is my celebration day. Pride is as important to me, as Easter is to an atheist.

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Post  mariehart1 Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:50 pm

I feel that as being gay becomes mainstream, which frankly it is. They may be less tolerant of people like us who they feel undermine their position. TERFs are another example.

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Post  Lesley Niyori Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:52 am

I sort of agree Marie.

I see the homosexual community, queer, whatever term they wish are really no different from any other cisgender person. They just have trouble understanding what gender actually is.

They're all about who they want to have sex with, and really not much else.

I have a girlfriend, she's not a lesbian. We are not two gay men in dresses. And yet TERFs just can't wrap their small minds around the fact that I AM a god damned woman. I'm not trying to displace a woman in sports with my superior physique. Because it isn't that superior. I'm not trying to invade woman's shelters. I don't wish to be considered a man in a woman's prison. And it just goes on and on.

Fuckng TERFs.
I couldn't give a flying fuck for a cisgender lesbian's needs if she's a TERF. Fuck her needs.
Chances are she's also an ugly fucking vagina too.

Sorry for the language, but TERFs get me VERY angry indeed.

They want to be considered mainstream and ordinary... well they are. They're no different to me from a cisgender straight guy. Equally capable of being dangerous assholes.

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Post  Kidagakash Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:38 am

I'm glad we have Transgender Day of Awareness.
Because THAT is my celebration day. Pride is as important to me, as Easter is to an atheist.[/quote]

I agree wholeheartedly. I tried to share my opinion about the difference between pride and awareness on a large trans support group on facebook and instead got berated and told I was taking away peoples voices, and trying to take focus off of things. I saw a lot of wonderful sharing of love and ideas and support on that day. Unfortunately I also saw a lot of overhyped mania that frankly embarressed me. The last straw was when I saw a post with the slogan "trans lives matter" and they were wearing tshirts and stuff. I do not want to be associated with and variation of the (insert distinctive trait) lives matter slogans. I say that because it DOES come from a very good place, but I've seen the horror shows and downright hurtful and abusive attitudes it can generate too. It's too much of a mixed bag for me to not cringe when I saw it applied to a subject that is very personal to me. I tried to express my opinion in no offensive way whatsoever, that I feel like there is a point where things can get out of hand and become counterproductive to it's actual intent. I expressed the utmost respect for their message and their standing up for a maginilized population of people, but that's also the thing about it that makes me cringe. There shouldn't have to be slogans like this! I want to be treated the same as anyone else deserves to be treated. I don't want to be pitied, or seen as a separate kind of person, and that's what we are resorting to in order to fight for equality. I *really* support civil rights and social justice but they just kept berating me and dumping on me. I have only been back to FB twice to check personal messages since that day. I'm not sure I want to go back. There is too much chaos and too much unfetted emotional outburst with little to no rational purpose. I shouldn't feel attacked in a fucking transgender support group, but there I was having to unfollow the post because I couldn't stand to hear another comment at me. Awareness is important. Equality is important. Going down the road where marginalized and abused people have to separate themselves from society in order to be treated fairly just doesn't make sense to me. It feels like adding to the problem. I should really just let it go, which I am. I mean, I know there was nothing but good intent from the majority of those people. It just hit a really deep nerve and I felt like shit that I was literally bullied out of the conversation. Did I mention this was during trans awareness day? some show of solidarity there... Sad Crying or Very sad

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Post  Kidagakash Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:13 am

[quote="Lesley Niyori"

When I say I'm female, let them think I'm straight until corrected. I'm marrying another transgender female. But I'm not a lesbian. I'm demisexual. I won't give a damn about another person's sexuality if I don't like the person inside.

But my sexuality isn't something I want to advertise.

I have been saying that for years. I always forget there is a term for that. I have the same issue with sexuality. If there isn't that spark of love then sex is just sex. That's why most of the guys I meet I'm not interested in. They mostly seem uninterested in talking about themselves whatsoever. It's like trying to squeeze blood from a stone usually. That's not to say I haven't met plenty of girls who are the same way.  I haven't had sex in over 5 years, and yes I enjoy it, but I don't miss it. I miss love Sad

And Pride is a celebration of freedom of sexuality as far as I'm concerned. Loud and Proud is all about Queer and Here (as I see it). It isn't about marginalized people as far as I'm concerned. Or the letters of the acronym would include colours and ethnicity and ableness and economics. And be quite the acronym to spell too.

I'm not hating on Pride, I'm just not planning to celebrate my being transgender at Pride any more. I'm no longer shouting out LGBT. I'm taking my T back. They can call it LGB again.

My day is Transgender Day of Awareness, and I plan to observe our Day of Remembrance.

Huge comment I made in here says it all for that. I voiced that opinion in earnesty and without offense or negativity and was basically told to fuck off and that I was ruining their "message". Exclusivity DOES NOT bring the world together. AWARENESS and EMPATHY does. And considering I'm supposed to be "one of them" and they treated me like shit for speaking my mind in a non confrontational or negative manner what does that say about being part of the "group"? Not too much. I had to unfollow that post because I felt like I had been betrayed by people who I let by guard down in hopes of friendship and understanding. I wanted to cry.

I want society to understand, that many transgender persons are straight, religious, conservative-minded persons. I want society to understand, I'm not about my sexuality. I want society to understand that we are all ordinary people.

That was the cornerstone of what I wanted to share with them. I don't think anyone understood. Not even one single like, heart, care, or positive comment. ALL hate and rejection. THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A PLACE WHERE YOU DON'T WORRY ABOUT REJECTION!!

I sometimes wonder, what does all the news, and craziness mean to other young transgender persons? I have a local transgender female friend who is currently 12 heading to 13. When we get together, we talk about things. And I can tell she's a kid still too. She's in Jr High, and out. And it is hard on her. I so often want to march up there and scare the shit out of the people bullying her. But that would never end well.

A 13-year-old can know full well they are transgender, but likely isn't ready for all the sexuality angle.
I've been kitchen help at LGBT-based camps with a focus on transgender. And a group of 40 or so transgender kids, will still be a group of 40 kids. They will act like kids. They want to explore their gender identities. They likely are not as desperate to be quite so sexual. That was my observation.

If I were growing up now instead of the 90's I would be terrified and feel like my life was being forced by people who seem hateful. Or at best, ignorant. The sudden wave of ANTI LGBT madness in government is mostly a lot of petty people getting revenge for not getting their way in the election. Or religious puritans/bigots cashing in on the same lingering hatred. When I was growing up I had no knowledge of any of this stuff. I knew I was a girl since I was 5 or 6, but as soon as I realized "it's evil" or "a mental illness" I was indoctrined into not just repressing it all, but actually loathing my existence the older I got. Statistics show that trans youth without support are prone to depression anxiety addiction suicide attempts. Before I knew that I had already been through most of that. If our country was left in that same state of mandatory ignorance and surpression and outright lies I would probably be dead now. I'm so thankful that I met people and read literature that explained to me that I'm not a monster. I don't have to live a hollow empty life where everything is a lie and I have such little will to keep going that I could barely function anymore. I still desperately wish there had been the kind of medical care and education that they are trying to rip out of every trans youths hands for their own selfish reasons. If I had known it was okay to be me I would have had a much happier life there past 25 years. I would look more like I feel inside. I had to accept that my chance to have a much better and natural transition was long gone. After I did I didn't care anymore about the shape of my bones or my receding hair or masculine facial features. I didn't care I grew 6 ft tall and have huge feet. Someone I think on this forum years ago told me that there are plenty of cis women who are as tall or taller than me. That was the crack in the ice I needed to finally break free. That was 4 years ago now and it literally saved my life. Sorry, this reply's so long... I spend a lot of time at home and I don't get many chances to talk about this stuff to anybody. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings. It gave me a lot of comfort after what happened on awareness day. <3

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Post  Kidagakash Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:24 am

mariehart1 wrote:I can only agree. If you look at the media at least here in Ireland and the UK media. They have made being gay mainstream. In fact normal. But that only reflects reality. Certainly not everywhere in the world.

But it's never that easy. Two of my sisters in law are very pro LGBT. My wife was always tolerant. But the sister in law are actually very active.

But I'm transgender and that is a challenge for my wife. The others don't know and I observe their complex reactions.

I imagine I wonder how they would see me?

That was a terrifying thought for me. It was also one of the biggest reasons I didn't transition until my 30s. I told my brother first. He was so excited for me, and actually had a lot of questions he wanted to figure out about himself which was a huge bonding moment. Last year he excitedly called me to say he was asexual and genderqueer. Him and I always were almost like twins it made lots of sense he had been going through something so similar. I hinted around and left hints for my mom but she never said anything until I told. She said she figured it out. she is hesitantly supportive, but thinks I'm making my life too hard to live. Always talks about an old friend who regretted it. I always tell her, "I'm not them," and "I've never been happier. "My Dad is still here, he doesn't accept it, but we are close as ever. Only one I haven't told is my older brother. I was told through my dad he thinks I live in a fantasy world.... I'm scared to find out what that means, so I never told him, but wonder how he'd react, like you with your sisters. All in all I got pretty damned lucky.


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Post  mariehart1 Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:13 pm

That was a terrifying thought for me. It was also one of the biggest reasons I didn't transition until my 30s. I told my brother first. He was so excited for me, and actually had a lot of questions he wanted to figure out about himself which was a huge bonding moment. Last year he excitedly called me to say he was asexual and genderqueer. Him and I always were almost like twins it made lots of sense he had been going through something so similar. I hinted around and left hints for my mom but she never said anything until I told. She said she figured it out. she is hesitantly supportive, but thinks I'm making my life too hard to live. Always talks about an old friend who regretted it. I always tell her, "I'm not them," and "I've never been happier. "My Dad is still here, he doesn't accept it, but we are close as ever. Only one I haven't told is my older brother. I was told through my dad he thinks I live in a fantasy world.... I'm scared to find out what that means, so I never told him, but wonder how he'd react, like you with your sisters. All in all I got pretty damned lucky. [/quote]
[/quote]

That's very interesting. I'm trans. I'm surrounded by people who are at least in their minds are trans tolerant. Certainly they are LGBTQ friendly. Actually two are very involved, one professionally and yet personally and the other the same. Both are in law sisters. Both extraordinary women, I admire both and are both Phds. Yes Doctors.

Yet they don't appear to realise their brother in law is transgender.

Although I think one does. I actually think she worked me out long ago. Indeed she had me worked out when she met me first. She was suspicious of me and she was right.

Every time I meet her I know she knows.

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Post  Maple Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:37 am

Lesley, I kind of have an idea of how you feel.

As a Veteran, I see so many other Vets claiming they know my views and put words in my mouth. I get fed up with some people being so superficial with their appreciation of my service. I get so tired of having to out myself almost every time I got to the Doctors in front of everyone in the waiting rooms because of the "Cost" of making a simple change to the files in the computers. Because "Bubba" can have his nick name front and center but I can't have my preferred name front and center without getting it legally changed.

As a result, I pulled away more than I should have for a long time.

Now, I try to show how much I appreciate those that are genuinely appreciative of the simple fact that I did serve in the US Navy with dignity, humility, and respect. I try to speak up when it's required so as to educate those that are obviously ignorant. I hold my head high and don't give a damn what others around me think about me because at the end of the day I'm not going home with them.

I bring this part of my life up in this way because I see that this has spilled into many other parts of my life than I realized and I'm able to keep going as a result.

It's not easy; but then again, nothing worth having ever is.

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Post  tiffany_elizabeth Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:29 pm

I actually hate pride month. For the next 30 days every time I leave the house it's going to be assumed that I'm a transtrender just wanting to be part of something bigger or people are going to try to hijack me to prove that they're an ally.

Last Thursday I was out grocery shopping. Someone actually said to me "jumping the gun, aren't you?" When I asked her what she meant she said "pride month doesn't start for a few more days." Last year I drove two hours for a drive-in fireworks show since we weren't celebrating Independence Day at my parents' house. There were closer ones, but I'm back in the closet to avoid eviction so two hours is my minimum safe distance. I got out of my car to use the facilities before the show started, a guy rolled his window down, and said "you know pride month ended four days ago."

I didn't have to worry about this last year because of the kung-flu, but in previous years I'd just be going about my business and people, usually women, would come up to me and start talking about how brave I was. Then they'd want me to go to some bar or some celebration with them. One of them even started talking to me in a rest stop restroom. In between plops she'd tell me about an event going on in a nearby town and try to get me to go with her.

Now I don't want that kind of attention. I don't want to be one of those purse dogs women show off for status. In fact, it bothers me that they could figure out I'm trans before they even heard my voice, which prior to that I thought was my only real giveaway. I certainly don't like having conversations about it.

One year I did accept an invitation. That led to an entire month of us getting together at various events. Even went canoeing for the first time since I was 12. I thought I had myself a girlfriend, or at least someone who considered me enough of a friend to actually do things with instead of just chatting online or when we run into each other. July came and she was too busy for everything. By August she was too busy to even tell me she was too busy.

I just want to get some new clothes, some groceries, a new part for my computer, or whatever I'm out for that day then come home for a nice quiet evening. I don't want to be treated like a commodity for a month so someone can get credit for being an ally and then go back to 11 months of isolation.

Frankly the hardest time I have out and about is the weeks leading up to pride month, during pride month itself, and the weeks coming out of pride month. If we didn't have pride month I could just live my life in relative peace, still get a few comments here and there, but nowhere near as many as when people think I'm just cross dressing for the month of June.

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Post  Lesley Niyori Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:40 am

I can so relate to your post dear.

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Post  Celia Eriksson Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:30 pm

Hi Bunny,

Case in point from your OP, from today's newspaper....... true colours are surfacing and the rainbow is shedding a certain shade of pink and blue...at least with this 'alliance'....

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9643495/Trans-groups-war-Charity-Commission-gave-charitable-status-LGB-Alliance.html

Celia xx

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Post  rem.1126 Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:45 pm

Well, I am surprised at the consensus against Prime celebrations. I believe I understand how you all feel about it, and I largely agree, but I am surprised that it is so widespread in this group.

I do not feel a part of the LGB community, in large part because (where I live), most gay men and lesbian women do ally with us. They seem to see us as an embarrassment, while seeing drag queens as good fun, as long as they are actually gay men. Rolling Eyes

So, I don't feel welcome, even though I am a lesbian. Most lesbian women here see me and people like me as a man/men.

I don't have any idea what the culture is like elsewhere, and had the impression that at least for trans activists, gay and lesbian organizations were seen as part of "our" community. I just see TERF's and see them throw us under the bus whenever things get tough politically. I don't feel a sense of community. Again, I had hoped that was just local, and not widespread.

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Post  MichaelaSJ Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:27 pm

I have trouble with the whole concept of individual pride or group pride.

I built 25 houses from design to sale and not one of these homes has developed a serious issue. I take pride in knowing that there are 25 families happily residing in homes I have built. I did something I am proud of doing.

What have I done, speaking of my transness, that deserves that I speak of pride. Was it going out the first time as Miki, or was it the first time I stood up to a bigot who wanted to shout me down. Living who you are is not something to be proud of inasmuch as everyone lives as who they are.

I am also troubled by the concept of including "T" in "LGB" conversations. We, the "T" have very little in common with the "LGB" folk except for having to fend off the bigotry shown to anyone not them. BTW, while I am a transwoman, I have no interest in joining with a male in any matter, sexual or otherwise. It is LGB....T, in my mind.

I am happy with who I am.

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Post  Celia Eriksson Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:29 am

I quite understand the posts and Miki has made a good point. But as I always maintain, we are the last free shot of discrimination, the last safe harbour for bigots to make remarks in the press that would never be aimed at LBG folk.

For it is almost encouraged! Our cause is not safe from bad press. TERFS have their discriminating thoughts upon us aired in many quarters. The press emphasises negatively against us, regularly, for it is hard for me to recall much positive press towards our cause for quite some time.

LGBT is an umbrella, and it is actually true that it does mainly cater for those of gay and bisexual orientation. And it sometimes appears, (BTW, I am a straight woman, so should I not come under this umbrella?), that we are the little bereft, often neglected waif of the acronym. Our place firmly placed as the last character of the acronym, as though an afterthought.

But, our organisation in the political and social sphere is weak, our numbers low. And although I believe the number of all humans born to the wrong gender is 50%, (the vast majority not expressing through social/cultural conditioning/restraint), support for those, like us, expressing our true gender is very low.

It makes sense, at least at present, for us to have a supportive, well established and strong umbrella group to shield under. I can recall support has been forthcoming many times from groups representing LGBT, and I think it is jolly well welcome.

For, it is well worth pondering and reiterating the title of Lesley's thread here and her post, for there are some that swim through life without unexplained things coming to full realisation, though they are few! The point that I want to emphasise should always be bore in mind whenever LGBT is mentioned and dealing with any group representing us in a positive way. And that point is, of course, being born with incorrect gender is not a sexuality and this is why the sexualities can be exclusive in thought upon us.

So I do support our representation by groups and organisation under the tag of LGBT, fully understanding why many of us feel ignored by the others that are represented by that acronym. The fact that the passive majority of us is woefully under-represented, is why losing the pink, white and blue from the rainbow and T from the acronym might not be so desirable.

Celia xx

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The sexualities can HAVE Pride back Empty Re: The sexualities can HAVE Pride back

Post  rem.1126 Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:03 pm

LGB……oh, well I guess so…t?

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Post  Michi Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:58 pm

From what I've seen online LGB people aren't really much about gay issues but instead are an anti-trans platform. I saw a pic of a large pride paradd, I think London, it was a large group with just ten or so LGB people trying to disrupt them (their philosophy is transboys should grow to be butch lesbians and transgirls should grow into effeminiate gay men).

Fred Sargeant who claimed that no transpeople had anything to do with the Stonewall riot in 1969 was a major person on Twitter and recently got booted off the platform for taking delite in misgendering people. A retired person and just obsessed 24/7 making transphobic comments. Kinda of hurtful to see Martina Navratilova in the group too. Even though it seems like transphobia is rampant in the UK (not just among Republican politicians in the US), I did see a bit where a LGB lesbian got kicked out of a Scottish bar for wearing a LGB shirt since the their policy was everyone is welcome. Historically, gays didn't like bi's since they were less likely to be out, not sure what's going on now.

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