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moral and ethical considerations vs the law of atraction

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Post  luckykunai Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:28 am

Has anyone seen the sudo documentary called the secrete. It is a documentary that claims that if you believe it hard enough it will happen. if at all realistic your wish be. there are so many people that believe in these principles{a.k.a the so called law of attraction.} without think about the ramifications that it scares me. for one there are people trying to use the law of attractions to make someone specific love them. e gad just the moral ramifications around the lack of consent alone s bad on that issue, more less the fact if it woks that you or the universe on your behalf have brain controlled another human being to the same extent as a love spell. and using the law of attraction is real simple.. just user affirmations to reprogram your subconscious.. the universe will do the rest... is it just me or does the prospects laid out in the law of attraction actually scare you more than intrigue you.

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Post  Lesley Niyori Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:14 am

According to physics, reality only exists when observed.

Additionally, you can make your reality. According to physics.

It's not quite that easy, but when has physics ever been easy.

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Post  luckykunai Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:30 am

True but what about the ethics involved?

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Post  luckykunai Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:51 am

If you were to cast a love spelletter on some one to make them love you. That would be brain washing via magic. To me despite not believing in magic and believingredients that the law of attraction is a natural fen ominous that isn't the universe being a jenie. The problem is most people that belive in such things treat it as science as magic and thus use it as a brain control method even if unintentionalyou so. So if it worked the way they thought it worked it would be immorality to even use such an abiliry on anyone elose but yourself.

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Post  Lesley Niyori Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:59 pm

luckykunai wrote:True but what about the ethics involved?

Ethics don't exist any more than evil. Evil doesn't exist. It's a construct.

We all change our minds due to circumstances. We say a lot of things, and then when push comes to shove, our true colours shine. We often don't even know our true colours.

How many here have found out a lot of things we sure didn't expect as a result of going public with something (not always being transgender either).

I learned more about life AFTER going public about being transgender than I had known for the 50 years prior. I have continued to learn things since as well.
I had a supposed 'boyfriend' who dropped me like a lava rock after my operation. His claim to be bi was fake. He was a gay man, and when my penis was gone, he was gone.
I have had to cope with people realizing, I'm not a little, I'm actually 9 mentally. And next year I will be 10. I recognize my body is 59. And a lot of people can't wrap their heads around it. They say I sound like an adult. Nope, I sound like a 9-year old that simply sounds a great deal smarter than I should.

You'd be surprised about my 'ethics' if I had the chance to speak of them.
You'd be shocked at my morals as well.
I'm an atheist, and I'm not mired in religious beliefs.
I'm also unwilling to entertain a lot of physics just because they sound 'neat'. I'm a great fan of a German scientist named Sabine on YouTube. She irks a lot of the physics community Smile

I never see the world through trends or popular consensus.

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Post  luckykunai Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:37 pm

ethics don't exist but nether does money. both have imaginary value but both have there usefulness in society. if we had nether we couldn't run society without.  plus if you don't think the financial system we hae is more than society running on litteral monopoly money. I implore you.. give an animal $5 and watch it be board and walk away.... yes ethics and morals are imaginary but if we didn't have them society wouldn't be..

p.s. I am an atheist as well. so you don't get to say that as a loop hole ether way. yes morality is subjective but without any moral consideration the world would just be anarchy....

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Post  luckykunai Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:52 pm

the problem with just saying morality is a construct and should have no consideration is the fact there would be enough people that would ust abuse the said laws if no one inforced them... think if a world where o one inforced theft or killin laws.. they where laws on the books but no one inforced them.. some people need those consequence so we can live asa society... yes I get that morals are subjective but they still are necessary..your way of thinking would lead to societal shut down in my opinion,...

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Post  mariehart1 Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:04 pm

I read the book called the 'The Secret'. The same people as the documentary. Essentially it says if you desire something the universe will provide. But also to be careful because the universe is a bit like a computer, it gives you what it thinks you asked for. So negative thinking attracts negativity.

It's basically nonsense. But what in fact it is true that thinking positively and looking for what you want in life does work to some extent. It's not magic, it's just that positivity allows you to see the opportunities in life.

Speaking of magic, a British magician, Derren Brown, had a show where he met a man who felt very negatively about how his life was going. Brown then secretly set up opportunities for him. Opportunities that could change his life for the better. With his negative attitude he missed them all. That was the point.

If you think that nothing good ever happens to you then you'll be right. If you think positively you will actively seek out good things and even make them happen.

If you want money you'll seek ways to get it. If you want love the same principle applies. You may not get either or you may not get exactly what you wanted but if you go around saying I'll never have good things. Then your prophecy will come true. It's not the universe or magic it's just you.


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Post  rem.1126 Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:33 am

So, what happens if you worry about something, and worrying makes you put in more effort, and you actually perform better than you feared vs you worry and get so stressed that you actually do worse? I am pretty sure that there is an optimal level of worry. As long as it motivates, but doesn’t overwhelm, it is probably helpful to worry.

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Post  rem.1126 Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:36 am

Lesley said: [quote] According to physics, reality only exists when observed.

Additionally, you can make your reality. According to physics.[\quote]

So, does this prove that the observer exists? If the observer didn’t exist, apparently nothing else would either.

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Post  rem.1126 Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:45 am

I don’t think morality is a construct, and I don’t think the laws of physics are a construct. I think they are both eternal and both are mysterious to humans. We don’t fully understand either of them. Just because we don’t always agree on what is an isn’t moral doesn’t mean morality is whatever we say. There is a right and a wrong, we just have trouble discerning between the two.

BTW, I am an atheist also. My views aren’t based on religion, but instead are based on what I think is the inspiration of all religions. Basically, I believe that all morals are based on empathy and a sense of value to life.

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Post  Lesley Niyori Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:19 pm

Morals are convenient when nothing is at risk.

I'm ok with murder is illegal, because it keeps me from worrying about you.

But is killing murder?

If it is me or you, I'm picking me.

The religious would say one thing while an atheist would say another. But the religious think there is a chance of punishment, while the atheist knows there isn't one.

Morals... ethics, same word, different spelling.

I'm nice because of the accounting benefits. Nice breeds nice. It's profitable. Agreeing to make murder a crime is practical. I don't do it because I like the perk. It's not about it being right or wrong.

I should note, I had trouble being in the military, because I didn't have a problem with killing. I thought that was a problem based on my assumption it had to be wrong. I have never had a fight in my life, because I scare myself. It's not because I'm scared of the opponent.

I'll chat about physics another time. Too much typing Smile

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Post  rem.1126 Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:31 pm

I think (as I understand the terms) there is a difference between morals and ethics. Morals tend to be seen as principles. Morals are essentially (in my understanding of the term)
a fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning. So, I would compare morals to a law of physics. There is almost certainly one truth, but we humans struggle to perceive exactly what that is.

Ethics tend to be more specific attempts to interpret a situation and apply moral principles to it to determine the best course. So, I think of ethics as being derivative of moral principles, an effort to pars the moral and apply the gleaning to a specific situation.

There is no underlying ethical truth. It is merely an attempt to establish a framework for applying a moral truth.

Maybe, my understanding is off, but that is my effort to express what I think is correct.

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Post  Lesley Niyori Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:33 am

Sounded good enough.

What makes me rare, is I'm willing to accept, that I'm not always right Smile

It has been my experience, that few humans can accept being wrong willingly.

I prefer to be corrected when incorrect. It means, as time goes by, I become increasingly likely to be correct more often.

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Post  rem.1126 Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:22 am

The desire to know when you are wrong and to change your position is important to me. I do my best to incorporate it into my life. I'd rather discover I had been wrong than keep being wrong.

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